You not preaching holiness till you've named it!

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So, having disposed of these specious arguments, let's get back to the original thought of the thread.

"How should holiness be preached in a pastoral setting?"

Thoughts as to "what is holiness, and how should it be presented?"

I present holiness first as a state of being imparted by God.

Holiness is not something you primarily do, it is something you primarily are, as God imparts it.

If God has given it, it cannot be taken away, except by Him.

Holiness begins and ends with the Holy Spirit. Those who have received the Spirit, and are walking in It, and are sowing to It, have had holiness imparted to them as a state of being.

Now, wherever they might be in that walking and sowing, might not be the same place as someone who has walked and sowed longer, but they aren't any less holy.

I've seen many newly born babes in Christ speaking in tongues as the water from their immersion, coupled with their tears, washes their eyeliner and mascara down their face.

They are holy to God, by impartation of the Holy Spirit. If they put that same makeup on the next day, they aren't any less holy unto God. But as they walk in the Spirit, and sow to the Spirit, as God brings conviction, as long as they are obeying what He puts in front of them to obey, each step of the way, they are walking in holiness.

Holiness then is about speech. God takes the tongue and submits it to His fire, and tames it. The heart that has been touched by the Holy Spirit will speak differently when it utters itself to the world.

So, I see holiness, first as an imparted status of being before God, and second, as a condition of the heart that manifests in how a person speaks. After that, the status and condition will lead to changes in regards to how they treat others. After how they begin to treat others changes the way God wants, holiness takes a deeper look inward, to make certain that nothing they say or do offends in any way.

This is where modesty, in my opinion, comes to play.

Modesty, I believe and teach, is only about other people. I can sing in tongues in the shower all I want and God doesn't care one bit. But when I am in public, modesty is the only appropriate response, to God, to my wife and family, and then to others, so that I am protected, while at the same time protecting the consciences of others.

I don't pretend to be some immaculate, handsome man. But neither I or my wife need any woman lusting after me for any reason. And so, I adorn myself in such a way as to not attract attention. My modesty is about making certain that no woman is inadvertently led to lust by how I appear.

As such, I feel it is the same with every believer. Their appearance is not about them. It's about not casting a stumbling-block before others.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I present holiness first as a state of being imparted by God.

Holiness is not something you primarily do, it is something you primarily are, as God imparts it.

If God has given it, it cannot be taken away, except by Him.

Holiness begins and ends with the Holy Spirit. Those who have received the Spirit, and are walking in It, and are sowing to It, have had holiness imparted to them as a state of being.

Now, wherever they might be in that walking and sowing, might not be the same place as someone who has walked and sowed longer, but they aren't any less holy.

I've seen many newly born babes in Christ speaking in tongues as the water from their immersion, coupled with their tears, washes their eyeliner and mascara down their face.

They are holy to God, by impartation of the Holy Spirit. If they put that same makeup on the next day, they aren't any less holy unto God. But as they walk in the Spirit, and sow to the Spirit, as God brings conviction, as long as they are obeying what He puts in front of them to obey, each step of the way, they are walking in holiness.

Holiness then is about speech. God takes the tongue and submits it to His fire, and tames it. The heart that has been touched by the Holy Spirit will speak differently when it utters itself to the world.

So, I see holiness, first as an imparted status of being before God, and second, as a condition of the heart that manifests in how a person speaks. After that, the status and condition will lead to changes in regards to how they treat others. After how they begin to treat others changes the way God wants, holiness takes a deeper look inward, to make certain that nothing they say or do offends in any way.

This is where modesty, in my opinion, comes to play.

Modesty, I believe and teach, is only about other people. I can sing in tongues in the shower all I want and God doesn't care one bit. But when I am in public, modesty is the only appropriate response, to God, to my wife and family, and then to others, so that I am protected, while at the same time protecting the consciences of others.

I don't pretend to be some immaculate, handsome man. But neither I or my wife need any woman lusting after me for any reason. And so, I adorn myself in such a way as to not attract attention. My modesty is about making certain that no woman is inadvertently led to lust by how I appear.

As such, I feel it is the same with every believer. Their appearance is not about them. It's about not casting a stumbling-block before others.

This is good.

Do you see a difference between holiness as an authoritative declaration by God, and holiness as an experiential reality in the believer's life? If so, how would you explain it?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Do you see a difference between holiness as an authoritative declaration by God, and holiness as an experiential reality in the believer's life? If so, how would you explain it?

Question is open to anyone.

Except Shazeep.

And maybe that forehead tattooed incense burning funny robe wearing guy.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

This is good.

Do you see a difference between holiness as an authoritative declaration by God, and holiness as an experiential reality in the believer's life? If so, how would you explain it?

No difference. I think the "authoritative declaration" by God is concurrent to the "experiential reality", that is, when and as God declares it, is when the believer is personally experiencing it.

That starts at receiving the Holy Spirit and remission of sins. As God declares the former sinner righteous, and sanctifies them by His Spirit and redemptively seals them, it is a de facto claim that God has now declared that person a "saint", i.e. a holy person.

From there, I think there are benchmarks in the Spirit that a person reaches; they walk in intimacy and faithfulness with the Lord, in which they are taken into deeper revelation and insight into the mysteries of the Kingdom of God. As those times are experienced, God is likewise making authoritative declarations about the person.

I think here is a stage in which a person "hears" from God and God gives them their unique calling in life. He speaks the calling at the same time a person has developed under His care, growing in holiness.

The last stage is the "well done, thou faithful servant". As God declares, the saint enters glory, and is sanctified for eternity.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Esaias

This is good.

Do you see a difference between holiness as an authoritative declaration by God, and holiness as an experiential reality in the believer's life? If so, how would you explain it?

Herein lies the difference of being called and chosen. We are called unto holiness. God wants to us to be like Christ and surrender to his will. When I gave my heart to God it was a package deal. I get in trouble sometimes with my wife because I have used some of her kitchen utensils in the shop. For the convenience I recently used a whisk to stir a can of paint. Needless to say it got me in trouble. I didn't use it for its intended purpose and defiled it from its original use.

When we give our hearts to God our purpose is to serve and obey his will. Just as a wife is to submit herself and be subject to her husband, we are to God. When we are in good relationship to God we are holy. I also note that everything that belongs to me also belongs to my wife. She is supposed to be submitted to me, but also there is nothing that I possess that is not within her grasp. If we submit ourselves to holiness, then we shall also reign with God. As a bride in relation to her groom, nothing is deprived her.

Although, at the moment we are only in the betrothal period. A Jewish bride was almost the same as married at the moment of her betrothal. If a maiden was betrothed and she stepped out on her soon to be husband she was deemed not just a fornicator. She was an adulterer, and this would make her defiled and unholy. God is not coming back for a harlot, but instead for a church with out spot or wrinkle.

I understand that Christ died for our sins to be purged and that is how we obtain our purity, but after coming to God we are to no longer live in disobedience. I think there is a difference between mistakes and willfully and purposely sinning. God is faithful to forgive us of mistakes but he will not allow his bride to be unfaithful. A covenant relationship works to ways. must anxiously await the day that he should appear.

Long story short. We are holy because of who we are betrothed to, but we are to live holy also because of who we are betrothed to.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Herein lies the difference of being called and chosen. We are called unto holiness. God wants to us to be like Christ and surrender to his will. When I gave my heart to God it was a package deal. I get in trouble sometimes with my wife because I have used some of her kitchen utensils in the shop. For the convenience I recently used a whisk to stir a can of paint. Needless to say it got me in trouble. I didn't use it for its intended purpose and defiled it from its original use.

When we give our hearts to God our purpose is to serve and obey his will. Just as a wife is to submit herself and be subject to her husband, we are to God. When we are in good relationship to God we are holy. I also note that everything that belongs to me also belongs to my wife. She is supposed to be submitted to me, but also there is nothing that I possess that is not within her grasp. If we submit ourselves to holiness, then we shall also reign with God. As a bride in relation to her groom, nothing is deprived her.

Although, at the moment we are only in the betrothal period. A Jewish bride was almost the same as married at the moment of her betrothal. If a maiden was betrothed and she stepped out on her soon to be husband she was deemed not just a fornicator. She was an adulterer, and this would make her defiled and unholy. God is not coming back for a harlot, but instead for a church with out spot or wrinkle.

I understand that Christ died for our sins to be purged and that is how we obtain our purity, but after coming to God we are to no longer live in disobedience. I think there is a difference between mistakes and willfully and purposely sinning. God is faithful to forgive us of mistakes but he will not allow his bride to be unfaithful. A covenant relationship works to ways. must anxiously await the day that he should appear.

Long story short. We are holy because of who we are betrothed to, but we are to live holy also because of who we are betrothed to.

So... she can use your shop files but you can't use her whisk?

lol j/k

Good post.

[allstate1]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I present holiness first as a state of being imparted by God.

Holiness is not something you primarily do, it is something you primarily are, as God imparts it.

If God has given it, it cannot be taken away, except by Him.

Holiness begins and ends with the Holy Spirit. Those who have received the Spirit, and are walking in It, and are sowing to It, have had holiness imparted to them as a state of being.

Now, wherever they might be in that walking and sowing, might not be the same place as someone who has walked and sowed longer, but they aren't any less holy.

I've seen many newly born babes in Christ speaking in tongues as the water from their immersion, coupled with their tears, washes their eyeliner and mascara down their face.

They are holy to God, by impartation of the Holy Spirit. If they put that same makeup on the next day, they aren't any less holy unto God. But as they walk in the Spirit, and sow to the Spirit, as God brings conviction, as long as they are obeying what He puts in front of them to obey, each step of the way, they are walking in holiness.

Holiness then is about speech. God takes the tongue and submits it to His fire, and tames it. The heart that has been touched by the Holy Spirit will speak differently when it utters itself to the world.

So, I see holiness, first as an imparted status of being before God, and second, as a condition of the heart that manifests in how a person speaks. After that, the status and condition will lead to changes in regards to how they treat others. After how they begin to treat others changes the way God wants, holiness takes a deeper look inward, to make certain that nothing they say or do offends in any way.

This is where modesty, in my opinion, comes to play.

Modesty, I believe and teach, is only about other people. I can sing in tongues in the shower all I want and God doesn't care one bit. But when I am in public, modesty is the only appropriate response, to God, to my wife and family, and then to others, so that I am protected, while at the same time protecting the consciences of others.

I don't pretend to be some immaculate, handsome man. But neither I or my wife need any woman lusting after me for any reason. And so, I adorn myself in such a way as to not attract attention. My modesty is about making certain that no woman is inadvertently led to lust by how I appear.

As such, I feel it is the same with every believer. Their appearance is not about them. It's about not casting a stumbling-block before others.

That next to last paragraph made me laugh out loud!!!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So, having disposed of these specious arguments,

specious? Come on.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Cracker Barrel

HOLINESS

Nothing greaves me more, than a man who is known among us, who has da ear of the people, and considered to be a preacher's preacher, that has influence, that will not preach his convictions. You can say, 'righteousness' 'holiness' and 'separation' from da world' in your message but in today's relative world it could mean something totally different to a crowd of a couple or several hundred or thousands. I don't mean naming the 5 things that we are all against, but things that have crept in among us unawares. There is a need to make plain what you are preaching. There is a need to say it in a way that nobody misunderstands what you are saying. I want to hear what you are for, young man, but please tell us, what are you against!?! Wowii

There is a need for the restoration of the open pulpit. A pulpit that isn't fettered to a man that has a red hot heart to preach what the Holy Ghost lays on his spirit. Why ask a man to preach for you, if he can't preach da burden of his heart?. When a man is prayed up, prayed through, with a heart full of love for da souls of men. A love for righteousness. A love for holiness. A heart tender to the conviction of the Holy Ghost. Let him preach, let that man name it.

We use the scripture in teaching on prayer, saying "" Matthew 21:21, say unto this mountain, be thou removed.."" Name the mountain to God in prayer. Why not name sin? why not name compromise? why not name those things that "so easily beset us. Hebrews 12:1"" ? The verse that says ""let it not be once named among you"" let me ask, if the sin had not been known then how is the church supposed to be aware? of what or who to run from? I'm not contradicting the apostle, but trying to show, that sin was known, because a man of God named it. Sure it was shameful but the church still had hope as long as the preacher had liberty to make it plain.
""1 Corinthians 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?""
""Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand""

Our young men are savvy on the latest trends and fads, words that slip past us old Kahuna's, please help da church, not just by encouraging the down and out, not just by preaching about revival, and building faith for miracles, but brother, help loose those that are bound, by naming those things that are destroying from within. Preach against the queer looking purple pinstripe suits, the height water pants, the pink shirts, the pee wee Herman happy pattern bow ties. Those things that give our boys a feminine appearance.

Preach against the split skirts, the patterns in the hose, the gold in the hair the gold on the clothes. Ask those ladies to take off that shiny stuff from their garments and tie them on a rope and hang around their neck. They wouldn't do it because that would be jewelry. Well I want to ask you young lady, Then why wear it on your clothes? Wear something that's not embarrassing to your pastor, to your father, or that your fellow brother sitting on the pew wouldn't have to turn his head when looking at you from across the room because your skirt is too short and tight while sitting. Where in the world did all these Cesar headbands come from? They came from the pit of hell hatched out of Rome. Fix the church while you were there, preach that queer from behind the piano off the platform, and straighten that place out and have revival! We are not Romans and we are not Greeks we belong to the heavenly Jerusalem. Come on young man, tell us, say it, name it.
"" Isaiah 53:8, Who Shall Declare His Generation? ""

The world is going to hell and people are wasting energy about "shiny stuff"...

Get busy helping people at a nursing home, a cancer ward, a homeless shelter, an orphanage or some other such worthy and noble cause and you won't have time nitpicking over irrelevant issues.

[Cracker Barrel]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

The world is going to hell and people are wasting energy about "shiny stuff"...

Get busy helping people at a nursing home, a cancer ward, a homeless shelter, an orphanage or some other such worthy and noble cause and you won't have time nitpicking over irrelevant issues.

If you see eye to eye with godsdrummer philosophy you'd feel comfortable in a trinitarian church. Come on I hope that's not right. Wowii?!??

The world IZ going to hell, but changing for an easier way is only sending them to the wide gate and broad way.

The spot and hair of Leporacy was an indicator of a disease dat was otherwise hidden.

It's our responsibility to ID da undr lying issue behind every compromise. Like skinny jeans, rings anywhere on the body, lip gloss, a tight skirt that is normally proper fit, a change in demeanor that is usually modest are some indicators of a heart falling off course. Shal we just ignore these red flags seen in the lives of people we have devoted our lives to? People dat we are to protect? People dat we have given everything for. Countless hours praying for?

Not on YOUR LIFE!!
I'm gonna preach !!
I'm gonna Name it !!
Love won't let me do otherwise.