Law was an impossible system to keep

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Catching up in the chat with this one.



But the issue in Acts 15 was ONLY the imposition of circumcision, which introduced the concept the entire law into which Circumcision inducted a gentile. The context does not address the pharisaical view, but simply the common view held by genuine Sinaitic covenant keepers as well as Pharisees-- that of inducting Gentiles by circumcision into lawkeeping.

'Certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed rose up and said...'

Sure looks to me like it's in the context.

[shazeep]

hmm, nice

Originally Posted by Esaias

In other words, Gill didn't know what it meant.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

In other words, Gill didn't know what it meant.

Lol

Circular reasoning, though.

I didn't even know what he thought and just checked to see his opinion. Agreed with mine. It's true because Paul clearly stated law cannot be kept with natural power. So that's the only conclusion that makes sense in John.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

'Certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed rose up and said...'

Sure looks to me like it's in the context.

I already said both Sinaitic law and Pharisaism share the idea circumcision was necessary for gentiles to come into the congregation.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Lol

Circular reasoning, though.

I didn't even know what he thought and just checked to see his opinion. Agreed with mine. It's true because Paul clearly stated law cannot be kept with natural power. So that's the only conclusion that makes sense in John.

Sorry, but Paul did not say that. Rather, that is a conclusion you have made from Paul's statements.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Really think about it.... someone who lives by the Ten Commandments might think that they are doing pretty good. However, the Ten Commandments are woefully incomplete. For nowhere in the Ten Commandments do we read that we are to visit the widows and/or the orphans in their affliction. Nor do the Ten Commandments command that we feed the hungry and care for the sick and needy. While the Ten Commandments are ethical, they would only keep you from being kicked out of church, arrested, divorced, or shot by a jealous spouse. Beyond that, they are really of little "moral" value. For love demands far more than Law. For example, if you saw a stranded motorist on the side of the road, nothing in the Ten Commandments commands you to stop and assist them. However, love would demand that you stop and seek how you might help, and to even give out of your own abundance to see to it that this motorist's immediate needs are met.

Love demands far more than law ever could or will.

To which brother Blume said 'Amen.'

Question: If 'love' demands 'far more than law ever could or will', then how is the law a 'grievous burden which cannot be borne' in contrast to 'love' or 'grace', which according to you guys is stricter, harder, heavier, and far more demanding than law?

To be quite honest, I think you guys do not have a holistic understanding of law and grace and how they relate to one another. I notice that because it seems you guys have somewhat of a patchwork or pastiche approach to this subject. And it includes some nice sounding theological phrases that simply don't exist in the Bible, like 'love demands far more than law ever could or will.' Or, 'the commandments of God are unbearable.'

I do not claim to be an expert, but I do try to view everything in scripture in its original context, and I try to only declare the very things scripture declares, preferably using the words scripture uses. I also have no theological background that I am coming from that might inadvertently sway my beliefs in causing me to either not see certain things, or see things that aren't there. I do honestly believe you are doing that to some extent in some of these discussions.

But I also believe that in large measure we are in agreement, as to the final practical destination we both get to, in regards to basic obedience to God. There are of course some differences of belief in regards to what exactly is included in that, and of course we each take a different route, but I am glad that you teach the grace of God produces genuine, loving obedience to him.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Sorry, but Paul did not say that. Rather, that is a conclusion you have made from Paul's statements.

Excuse me elder, but could the carnal man do anything which God had prescribed to the Spiritual man?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

To which brother Blume said 'Amen.'

Question: If 'love' demands 'far more than law ever could or will', then how is the law a 'grievous burden which cannot be borne' in contrast to 'love' or 'grace', which according to you guys is stricter, harder, heavier, and far more demanding than law?

To be quite honest, I think you guys do not have a holistic understanding of law and grace and how they relate to one another. I notice that because it seems you guys have somewhat of a patchwork or pastiche approach to this subject. And it includes some nice sounding theological phrases that simply don't exist in the Bible, like 'love demands far more than law ever could or will.' Or, 'the commandments of God are unbearable.'

I do not claim to be an expert, but I do try to view everything in scripture in its original context, and I try to only declare the very things scripture declares, preferably using the words scripture uses. I also have no theological background that I am coming from that might inadvertently sway my beliefs in causing me to either not see certain things, or see things that aren't there. I do honestly believe you are doing that to some extent in some of these discussions.

But I also believe that in large measure we are in agreement, as to the final practical destination we both get to, in regards to basic obedience to God. There are of course some differences of belief in regards to what exactly is included in that, and of course we each take a different route, but I am glad that you teach the grace of God produces genuine, loving obedience to him.

Did you tape this?

Bro, could you speak more about what you posted?

Also pray for us we have a pretty big killer storm bearing down on us which looks none too friendly.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Sorry, but Paul did not say that. Rather, that is a conclusion you have made from Paul's statements.

I'm willing to discuss it and await your response to the post outlining Paul's words in Romans 7

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Excuse me elder, but could the carnal man do anything which God had prescribed to the Spiritual man?

Never. Good point. The law is spiritual Paul said.