Institutionalized Church / Your Input

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

We just have to recognize that it's the message that's sacred and not our methods.

I don't pass out tracts but I'm certainly not against it I'd it's done correctly. My MIL does it almost so that she can put notches on her belt. She's the type that will leave a tract instead of a tip.*shudders*

Yesterday, pastor preached from John 10:9 about Jesus saying, "I am the door...."

Later on last night something occured to me,"He is the door which means, I am not."

I think many times we set up our own door in front of Christ's door and we only open ours at certain times to let others through instead of being open at all times to point the way to Him.

No, I'm not a theological expert. I just try and read the Bible as written an understand it the best I can at face value. Most people you run into aren't wanting to argue theology, they are looking for a practical application of a practical, real Savior.

I just try and see the things in peoples lives where they are looking for or need help and approach them on the basis of how Jesus can help them and not demand they jump through hoops for it.

Whether they need healing, deliverance, encouragement, provision, peace, comfort...Whatever...I mean freely we have received, freely give right?

Also, remember when Jesus said that when someone asks for our coat to give them our cloak as well? Or if we are compelled to go one mile to go two?

Until recently I have never put that into the view of ministry....But isn't that what God does for us? He is more than enough...How many times has He provided in ways more than what we have asked for?

How can we incorporate that into our ministry with people we meet on a day to day basis? I'm looking for more ideas.

The business card idea is awesome in my opinion and I'd love to hear more about it and how it has been working out for you.

[jediwill83]

People tend to be too distracted by their own personal hells they are currently experiencing to be effectively approached with the concept of eternal punishment.

There comes a point to where you just get numb...It's like no matter how bad it gets you feel like you can't fight against it...You're powerless. Someone coming along informing you that,"You need Jesus or you're going to hell." ...What goes through their mind when hearing that is,"Tell Him to take a number."

When ministering, Christ met the NEEDS of the people...He didn't threaten them....

Look at how it was noises abroad in scripture about the good deeds He did....notice that they weren't running through town screaming that, "This guy told me I was gonna burn of I didn't repent!!!!"

Now look...I'm accusing no one of doing that ok?

What I'm saying is that of you want word to spread like wildfire do what He did.

Find those oppressed by the devil and set em free....And then they go get their friends...Who get their friends and if you teach them that they have the same authority upon receiving the HG they won't HAVE to bring them to you....They will be doing it themselves in Jesus name!

Beforeyou know it you can have a army of new converts not indoctrinated by tradition that don't have to be untaught...They will spiritually reproduce after their own kind which will be that crazy out of the box kinda faith where they believe that there is nothing God can't do and there are no limitations to where and when He will do it.

[BrainWashed]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

People tend to be too distracted by their own personal hells they are currently experiencing to be effectively approached with the concept of eternal punishment.

There comes a point to where you just get numb...It's like no matter how bad it gets you feel like you can't fight against it...You're powerless. Someone coming along informing you that,"You need Jesus or you're going to hell." ...What goes through their mind when hearing that is,"Tell Him to take a number."

When ministering, Christ met the NEEDS of the people...He didn't threaten them....

Look at how it was noises abroad in scripture about the good deeds He did....notice that they weren't running through town screaming that, "This guy told me I was gonna burn of I didn't repent!!!!"

Now look...I'm accusing no one of doing that ok?

What I'm saying is that of you want word to spread like wildfire do what He did.

Find those oppressed by the devil and set em free....And then they go get their friends...Who get their friends and if you teach them that they have the same authority upon receiving the HG they won't HAVE to bring them to you....They will be doing it themselves in Jesus name!

Beforeyou know it you can have a army of new converts not indoctrinated by tradition that don't have to be untaught...They will spiritually reproduce after their own kind which will be that crazy out of the box kinda faith where they believe that there is nothing God can't do and there are no limitations to where and when He will do it.

My approach is completely different. As I stated in this thread, many have become religiously institutionalized. The staff within my church including the pastor, they always tend to crank up the volume and yell over the pulpit every moment available. They actually ran off a family because the music and preaching volume was too loud. I’m assuming my church believes everything must be loud within a church service?

My pastor once asked me why don’t I worship out loud by yelling, etc. He basically conveyed that the volume of my voice displays the intensity of my worship, technically. I said, “really?” I then asked him, “In 1 Samuel 1: 12-14, the bible reads that Hannah prayed with all her heart, silently. Her lips moved, but no sound was heard. Are you telling me that Hannah didn’t pray with all her heart because she didn’t lift up her voice? Was the bible lying when it states that Hannah prayed with all her heart while being silent? Is it possible to pray and worship with all your heart while remaining silent.” Guess what? I didn’t receive response from my pastor.


I generally notice I seems to keep my prayers and worship quiet, somewhat in whisper tones. However, I noticed that in these instances I have felt God in a mighty ways. I feel this inner buildup and a strong presence of God, and at that time I've periodically risen my voice. I don’t raise my voice to satisfy anyone’s minuscule thinking about what is classified as “worshiping/praying with your whole heart.”

Also, I never walked up to someone and said, “hi, do you know you’re going to hell? lol….. My approach is much different. I’ve always addressed the “inner-man” of an individual. Too many people have preached about hell. The reality is, many will be there. But instead of reaching your brain with a “hell” message, I want to reach the depth of your heart with with a personalized message from god. This will have a greater effect than “your going to hell to dance with your father, the devil!!!! LOLOLOL"

I was once driving on the freeway, praying, and god spoke to me. He said, “my people are indoctrinated with the faith of this world.”

The faith of this world places limitations on God’s power. The faith of this world places boundaries. The faith of this world will tell you it CAN happen. Having the mentality of “it can happen” will always keep you in a state of “possibly receiving.” Yet the bible reads, "But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. Such people should not expect to receive anything from the Lord.”


In all honesty, are you asking in faith when you believe God can do it? There’s a difference between “CAN” and “WILL.” Believing that god CAN heal you will not necessarily get you “healed."


In my teenage years I ran from God, and many people pleaded that I return and said that God had a plan for me. I blew them off and lived for the world, not knowing a few days down the road, in my rebelliousness, I would be hospitalized with Acute Kidney Failure. My kidneys were starting to fail quickly and my three doctors were talking about surgery to start dialysis on the third day of hospitalization. I distinctively remember this stranger lady walking into my room, grabbing my hand, and she began weeping and said “God loves you.” I then began weeping. That day a brethren came to visit me in the hospital and I gave my life back to God. That morning the doctors ran more tests. They came to me in an amazement and said they didn’t know what happened, but my kidney function was returning to “normal.” I was discharged two days later with working kidneys.


I’ve had doctors who have told me that I had an enlarged aorta while in the E.R. They quickly took me to the CAT Scan machine to find out why! I called on God while laying on the table in front of the doctors. They didn’t know why after the scan that my aorta was no longer enlarged. I’ve also been told in my life that my left atrium was enlarged after an echo cardiogram test, and after calling on god, it was no longer enlarged in another echo cardiogram follow-up. In 2012 they performed an MRI of my brain and they found lesions. They reran the test for further diagnosing and the lesions were gone. IN 2012 I was hospitalized with elevated troponin levels (signifies a heart attack). I felt pressure in my chest and vibrations, and I was taken to the hospital. I was admitted and they performed a coronary angio. I was hospitalized for 5 days. The doctors said my heart was healthy, no blockages, and they didn’t understand what had happened with me. This happened twice, in 2012 and 2014. Last year I started seeing zigzags and flashing lights. I was taken to the E.R. and they rushed me to the back under the assumption that I was having a stroke. After many tests, they couldn’t understand what had happened. All I know is God is a healer, and he’s the same yesterday, today and forever.

I’m tired of hearing people say they want revival and just sit on their lazy butt. Revival isn’t a 3 day weekend church event where you crank up the music after inviting an evangelist. Revival is a mindset. Revival is making something important AGAIN. Revival is making something we once valued important AGAIN. I’ve said over the pulpit before and I’ll say it again. God will not put babies in a dying mother’s womb! If your church isn't growing, you're near half way dead.

But someone people just don't care! They're stained hearing themselves speak with how many people they want to win. All talk and no action.

[Monterrey]

I got a wristband once that had WWJD written on it... will that count?

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by BrainWashed

My approach is completely different. As I stated in this thread, many have become religiously institutionalized. The staff within my church including the pastor, they always tend to crank up the volume and yell over the pulpit every moment available. They actually ran off a family because the music and preaching volume was too loud. I’m assuming my church believes everything must be loud within a church service?

My pastor once asked me why don’t I worship out loud by yelling, etc. He basically conveyed that the volume of my voice displays the intensity of my worship, technically. I said, “really?” I then asked him, “In 1 Samuel 1: 12-14, the bible reads that Hannah prayed with all her heart, silently. Her lips moved, but no sound was heard. Are you telling me that Hannah didn’t pray with all her heart because she didn’t lift up her voice? Was the bible lying when it states that Hannah prayed with all her heart while being silent? Is it possible to pray and worship with all your heart while remaining silent.” Guess what? I didn’t receive response from my pastor.


I generally notice I seems to keep my prayers and worship quiet, somewhat in whisper tones. However, I noticed that in these instances I have felt God in a mighty ways. I feel this inner buildup and a strong presence of God, and at that time I've periodically risen my voice. I don’t raise my voice to satisfy anyone’s minuscule thinking about what is classified as “worshiping/praying with your whole heart.”

Also, I never walked up to someone and said, “hi, do you know you’re going to hell? lol….. My approach is much different. I’ve always addressed the “inner-man” of an individual. Too many people have preached about hell. The reality is, many will be there. But instead of reaching your brain with a “hell” message, I want to reach the depth of your heart with with a personalized message from god. This will have a greater effect than “your going to hell to dance with your father, the devil!!!! LOLOLOL"

I was once driving on the freeway, praying, and god spoke to me. He said, “my people are indoctrinated with the faith of this world.”

The faith of this world places limitations on God’s power. The faith of this world places boundaries. The faith of this world will tell you it CAN happen. Having the mentality of “it can happen” will always keep you in a state of “possibly receiving.” Yet the bible reads, "But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. Such people should not expect to receive anything from the Lord.”


In all honesty, are you asking in faith when you believe God can do it? There’s a difference between “CAN” and “WILL.” Believing that god CAN heal you will not necessarily get you “healed."


In my teenage years I ran from God, and many people pleaded that I return and said that God had a plan for me. I blew them off and lived for the world, not knowing a few days down the road, in my rebelliousness, I would be hospitalized with Acute Kidney Failure. My kidneys were starting to fail quickly and my three doctors were talking about surgery to start dialysis on the third day of hospitalization. I distinctively remember this stranger lady walking into my room, grabbing my hand, and she began weeping and said “God loves you.” I then began weeping. That day a brethren came to visit me in the hospital and I gave my life back to God. That morning the doctors ran more tests. They came to me in an amazement and said they didn’t know what happened, but my kidney function was returning to “normal.” I was discharged two days later with working kidneys.


I’ve had doctors who have told me that I had an enlarged aorta while in the E.R. They quickly took me to the CAT Scan machine to find out why! I called on God while laying on the table in front of the doctors. They didn’t know why after the scan that my aorta was no longer enlarged. I’ve also been told in my life that my left atrium was enlarged after an echo cardiogram test, and after calling on god, it was no longer enlarged in another echo cardiogram follow-up. In 2012 they performed an MRI of my brain and they found lesions. They reran the test for further diagnosing and the lesions were gone. IN 2012 I was hospitalized with elevated troponin levels (signifies a heart attack). I felt pressure in my chest and vibrations, and I was taken to the hospital. I was admitted and they performed a coronary angio. I was hospitalized for 5 days. The doctors said my heart was healthy, no blockages, and they didn’t understand what had happened with me. This happened twice, in 2012 and 2014. Last year I started seeing zigzags and flashing lights. I was taken to the E.R. and they rushed me to the back under the assumption that I was having a stroke. After many tests, they couldn’t understand what had happened. All I know is God is a healer, and he’s the same yesterday, today and forever.

I’m tired of hearing people say they want revival and just sit on their lazy butt. Revival isn’t a 3 day weekend church event where you crank up the music after inviting an evangelist. Revival is a mindset. Revival is making something important AGAIN. Revival is making something we once valued important AGAIN. I’ve said over the pulpit before and I’ll say it again. God will not put babies in a dying mother’s womb! If your church isn't growing, you're near half way dead.

But someone people just don't care! They're stained hearing themselves speak with how many people they want to win. All talk and no action.

Yeah. I totally get the frustration with the, "The louder it is the more annointed it is" mindset.

When I was younger I had a strong hunger for God that wasn't being net by volume...So I'd get by myself in a darkened Sunday school office and just let God speak. I think your approach is pretty awesome...It's what I try to do as well. I wasn't trying to come across like I was accusing you of doing that...I was just making a point of how some behave and think.

God has been dealing with me on how to pray for others too....It's a interesting technique and it may have better results. I'll post more on the idea later.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by BrainWashed

My pastor once asked me why don’t I worship out loud by yelling, etc. He basically conveyed that the volume of my voice displays the intensity of my worship, technically. I said, “really?” I then asked him, “In 1 Samuel 1: 12-14, the bible reads that Hannah prayed with all her heart, silently. Her lips moved, but no sound was heard. Are you telling me that Hannah didn’t pray with all her heart because she didn’t lift up her voice? Was the bible lying when it states that Hannah prayed with all her heart while being silent? Is it possible to pray and worship with all your heart while remaining silent.” Guess what? I didn’t receive response from my pastor.


I generally notice I seems to keep my prayers and worship quiet, somewhat in whisper tones. However, I noticed that in these instances I have felt God in a mighty ways. I feel this inner buildup and a strong presence of God, and at that time I've periodically risen my voice. I don’t raise my voice to satisfy anyone’s minuscule thinking about what is classified as “worshiping/praying with your whole heart.”

In regards to the parts of your post I quoted here my personal experience having grown up in the religious culture where loudness and intensity of ones voice in prayer or praise and worship was very important to many years later being in a religious culture that values the word over emotion my most interesting observation is that I have seen an equal amount of healings, deliverance, God changing lives, etc in both. I also have observed the same amount of human duplicity, moral failure, envy, strife, cheating, lying ,etc, etc in both. God is God and what he does in ones life is in no way connected to the loudness of ones prayers or worship but to the sincerity of ones heart and supplication to him.

Several years ago a AFF member was visiting Nashville on business and we got to meet. He attended a church where it was 100 mph all the time when it came to church and worship. He related a story of one time being in the choir and quietly enjoying the presence of God and communing with Him while 99.9% of the other folks where going nuts "shouting", running, etc and his Pastor's wife came up to him and pretty much rebuked him because he was not juking and jiving with everybody else. I feel sorry for folks who don't understand and experience the quiet but powerful times with God and judge peoples spirituality by how loud and wildly they pray and worship.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by CC1

I feel sorry for folks who don't understand and experience the quiet but powerful times with God and judge peoples spirituality by how loud and wildly they pray and worship.

I feel sorry for folks who don't understand and experience the LOUD and powerful times with God ALSO and (who) judge people's spirituality NEGATIVELY by how loud and boisterous they get in prayer and worship.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I feel sorry for folks who don't understand and experience the LOUD and powerful times with God ALSO and (who) judge people's spirituality NEGATIVELY by how loud and boisterous they get in prayer and worship.

Of course you totally missed my point. I don't judge anybody's spirituality by how loud or boisterous they worship. I am just saying they are not any more spiritual than those who do not do that and that they don't enjoy God's blessings, healing, strengthening, etc any more than those that don't.

In the old time Pentecost I was raised in the idea was that God blessed, healed, delivered, etc pretty much 100% of the time in atmospheres of intense emotional, loud, boistrous worship. My point is that my life experience has shown me that I see an equal number of blessings, healings, etc in churches that don't engage in that and I believe it is because God doesn't need a bunch of people screaming and jumping up and down for him to operate or hear prayers.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by CC1

Of course you totally missed my point. I don't judge anybody's spirituality by how loud or boisterous they worship. I am just saying they are not any more spiritual than those who do not do that and that they don't enjoy God's blessings, healing, strengthening, etc any more than those that don't.

"Of course you missed my point". That's the new meme nowadays which actually means "Hey, you don't agree with me and didn't affirm my point."

I got your point, understood it perfectly. And I just simply responded with a counter point. Since I didn't just "yessirreebobdoody" and high five you but instead offered another view of things you took it personal, as if I said anything about YOU.

Why people like you always take a contrary opinion as if it were some kind of personal attack I'll never understand. Must be the over inflated ego and smug sense of self importance that comes with moving on from the backwaters of old time Pentecost.

Bunch of people screaming and jumping up and down? And you "don't judge anyone's spirituality"?

Yeah, right.

Whatever, Hoss.

[houston]

I just want to go on record and state that I feel sorry for both.