It's Your Fault People Are Homosexual

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Do you really think that is what he is doing? I will testify that not once, never, ever, ever have I heard a preacher preach a sermon or a teacher teach a lesson where Romans 1 is referenced with your logic used.

Not saying you are wrong, but saying that people do not usually use the verses you have mentioned in Romans 1 for the purpose you have stated.

In Romans 1-3 Paul shows that the principle of sin is in the world, and that the gentiles, then the Jews, and then all are sinners. He is showing that we are all in need of a savior.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Estrogens and pseudoestrogens (leaching out from plastic, for example) certainly have a role to play in effeminizing people, but really there is no sin that can be blamed on genetics, biology, or natural causes in the environment.

That is a very bold statement. No sin at all that can be blamed on genetics, biology, or natural causes in the environment?

How about man-made unnatural causes in the environment?
Alcoholism seems to have a genetic root for some.
Not trying to be funny or obstinate, but what about Tourrettes Syndrome?

Originally Posted by Esaias

People make choices. There are no "born homosexuals" anymore than there are "born adulterers" or "born fornicators", except insofar as everyone is born with a drive for self-seeking and satisfaction, which will given time manifest as sin. It shows up in some people one way, in others another way.

I guess to disagree with this line of thinking means that one would embrace the possibility that some can be born with a homosexual identity.

Can a person be born with cancer?

Originally Posted by Esaias

The grace of God is able to meet all our needs, unless we try to blame anyone or anything but ourselves for our sins.

For sure, God is able to meet all of our needs. No doubt!

Is a sin not a sin if indeed there were / are people and forces outside of you that causes you to stumble?

I have to say that there are situations and people in positions of influence that can and will lead another person to sin.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by n david

It appears there is a pattern in 1:18-32 -- a tumble downhill once a person rejects God.

They reject God and refuse to accept His salvation.

He gives them up to their lusts.

They exchange the truth of God for a lie (more rejection of God) and begin practicing idolatry.

"For this cause" God gives them up (again?) to vile passions

And continuing ... "even after they refused to have God in their knowledge" (again, more rejection of God) "God gave them up to a reprobate mind."

There is a way to see hope in these verses: all of the "God gave them up" are preceded by people actively rejecting God. As long as you've got a fight left in you; as long as you don't reject God, He will never give up on you.

I am so grateful, just so, so grateful for a sense of a fear of God!

EVEN MORE SO GRATEFUL FOR THE GRACE OF GOD!

Without HIS GRACE, there would be NO FEAR!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Does the, "God gave them up" in Romans 1 speak of a permanent, unchanging, eternal disposal of an individual who has persisted in their sins?

Never mind, Esaias has hit on this above.

I do believe the Bible teaches that a person who persists in unbelief can reach a point of no return, where God ends His attempts to bring them to salvation. In such a case, God leaves them to their own devices, and they never will repent. But one can never know if that has happened until judgment day, because people WE give up on often do in fact come around to the Lord's side.

I dot think that applies to the average backslider, much less somebody struggling against sin.

If a person hits the point of no return, they themselves wont care about it until judgment day.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by ILG

What if when Paul wrote this, the reasons for homosexuality were that God gave people up to their lusts but now there may be genetic reasons like estrogens in the environment? Food for thought.

If there are indeed genetic reasons for sin, are you suggesting that those sinners who are hardwired to sin therefore must continually sin?

Does genetic predisposition nullify the command to born again?

I believe that we are ALL hardwired to sin.

I believe that notion that God cannot let a person be born predisposed to sin limits the power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

That is a very bold statement. No sin at all that can be blamed on genetics, biology, or natural causes in the environment?

Name one?

How about man-made unnatural causes in the environment?
Alcoholism seems to have a genetic root for some.
Not trying to be funny or obstinate, but what about Tourrettes Syndrome?

Alcoholism is a myth. Drunkenness is a sin, "the disease called alcoholism" is a religious fable invented by the founder of AA who was a certifiable nutjob. There is no gene for alcoholism. Tourette's isn't a sin, it's a disorder. Are demoniacs guilty of sin committed while possessed?

I guess to disagree with this line of thinking means that one would embrace the possibility that some can be born with a homosexual identity.

There is no such thing as being born with a "homosexual identity", that's Babylonian sodomite propaganda. All humans are born with )sex drive, b)gender ignorance, and c)desire for affirmation.

The sex drive is biologically heterosexual because the GENETIC PURPOSE of sex is reproduction, but manifests as a desire for physical stimulation of nerve bundles and satisfying the drive for pleasure. People learn by experiences what stimulates pleasure, and then seek out more of it.

Children learn their gender as they grow, and learn how to be from observation and instruction, primarily from parents but also siblings, peers, and society at large. Gender dysphoria is a known mental disorder, a case of maladaptation. It is not identical with homosexuality but often linked with it.

Boys need affirmation from fathers, girls from mothers, that they are loved and growing normally. Lack of affirmation often, though not always, results in an unfulfilled desire for said affirmation. The Oedipal and Electra complexes get re-wired. Junior seeks affirmation (love and affection) from Dad but never gets it, so finds himself attracted to males (surrogate father-figures). Same with Missy and her Momma, just reversed. Or, Missy grows up with a father who's mean, so she learns to hate men. Or Mom was the head of the family and Dad was weak and distant, so Junior and Missy both over-identify with Mom and learn their identity from her and one goes sissy and the other goes dyke.

And, there are lots of other reasons as well.
There is no one size fits all cause.

Can a person be born with cancer?

Being born with cancer is not a sin.

Is a sin not a sin if indeed there were / are people and forces outside of you that causes you to stumble?

I have to say that there are situations and people in positions of influence that can and will lead another person to sin.

Enticing or encouraging someone to sin is not the same as DIRECTLY CAUSING someone to sin by force of arms. If I tied you up, put a gun in your hand, and used my finger to squeeze yours so it fired and killed someone, are you guilty of murder?

Sin is a voluntary act, and therefore truly involuntary actions cannot be sins, in a moral sense.

[ILG]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

If there are indeed genetic reasons for sin, are you suggesting that those sinners who are hardwired to sin therefore must continually sin?

No.

Does genetic predisposition nullify the command to born again?

No.

I believe that we are ALL hardwired to sin.

Me too.

I believe that notion that God cannot let a person be born predisposed to sin limits the power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

All people are born predisposed to sin, in my opinion.

[madras]

All people are born predisposed to sin, in my opinion.

That is why you must be born from above.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by madras

That is why you must be born from above.

Are you from Chennai?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Are you from Chennai?

I was playing around on Google Translate, Punjabi to English. I typed random gibberish into the Punjabi box and I repeatedly got English results like "The expectation of customer service is to press one" and a host of similar statements.

I kid you not.

I even got a "Obvious JavaScript idiot" response.

EDIT: Sorry, not Punjabi, but Tamil.
Patakala butaddha baba jahalaskundi makariabdzalatrypu snadzi hfuihg haṭṭṭēpir'hakupijūpi hiuuhfg jh a baa ababs djfjisjakaaoofmd idns dsb xzssrrsgtweujb

gave me some gibberish with Tamil characters inserted. So I pasted them for this:

snadzi hfuihg ஹட்ட்டேபிர்ஹகுபிஜூபி hiuuhfg jh a baa ababs djfjisjakaaoofmd idns dsb xzssrrsgtweujb

And got this output:

Not only the original but also the social networking site of the hottestherhugiebi hiuuhfg jh a baa ababs djfjisjakaaoofmd idns dsb xzssrrsgtweujb