It's Your Fault People Are Homosexual

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ILG

What if when Paul wrote this, the reasons for homosexuality were that God gave people up to their lusts but now there may be genetic reasons like estrogens in the environment? Food for thought.

Ironic that you would mention food and hormones together. Testosterone issues is due to what the male eats, and what his rate of activity. If he doesn't keep using the muscle structure God gave him. Sooner or later he will have emotional issues brought on by low testosterone. Same thing with women.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I was playing around on Google Translate, Punjabi to English. I typed random gibberish into the Punjabi box and I repeatedly got English results like "The expectation of customer service is to press one" and a host of similar statements.

I kid you not.

I even got a "Obvious JavaScript idiot" response.

EDIT: Sorry, not Punjabi, but Tamil.
Patakala butaddha baba jahalaskundi makariabdzalatrypu snadzi hfuihg haṭṭṭēpir'hakupijūpi hiuuhfg jh a baa ababs djfjisjakaaoofmd idns dsb xzssrrsgtweujb

gave me some gibberish with Tamil characters inserted. So I pasted them for this:

snadzi hfuihg ஹட்ட்டேபிர்ஹகுபிஜூபி hiuuhfg jh a baa ababs djfjisjakaaoofmd idns dsb xzssrrsgtweujb

And got this output:

Not only the original but also the social networking site of the hottestherhugiebi hiuuhfg jh a baa ababs djfjisjakaaoofmd idns dsb xzssrrsgtweujb

Wow, typing in tongues!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

If there are indeed genetic reasons for sin, are you suggesting that those sinners who are hardwired to sin therefore must continually sin?

Does genetic predisposition nullify the command to born again?

I believe that we are ALL hardwired to sin.

I believe that notion that God cannot let a person be born predisposed to sin limits the power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

People aren't born "predisposed to sin". They ARE however born predisposed to self-seeking and pleasing self, ie predisposed to seek pleasure.

This will, given time, lead a person to choose pleasing self instead of obeying God - which is the basics of sin.

There is, however, another aspect of sin that involves being an alien from the Covenant ie a Gentile (see Galatians 2:15). But that has nothing to do with any supposed physical predisposition to disobedience to moral law (which would be an oxymoron).

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

People aren't born "predisposed to sin". They ARE however born predisposed to self-seeking and pleasing self, ie predisposed to seek pleasure.

This will, given time, lead a person to choose pleasing self instead of obeying God - which is the basics of sin.

There is, however, another aspect of sin that involves being an alien from the Covenant ie a Gentile (see Galatians 2:15). But that has nothing to do with any supposed physical predisposition to disobedience to moral law (which would be an oxymoron).

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Esaias

People aren't born "predisposed to sin". They ARE however born predisposed to self-seeking and pleasing self, ie predisposed to seek pleasure.

This will, given time, lead a person to choose pleasing self instead of obeying God - which is the basics of sin.

There is, however, another aspect of sin that involves being an alien from the Covenant ie a Gentile (see Galatians 2:15). But that has nothing to do with any supposed physical predisposition to disobedience to moral law (which would be an oxymoron).

Are people born sinners?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Are people born sinners?

No. Sin is the transgression of the law, and there is no law against being born, nor is there any law against being born a homo sapiens.

However, as noted earlier, there is a sense in which a Gentile was de facto a "sinner" simply by being a Gentile, but that's a Covenantal issue, not a strictly moral issue.

[Jermyn Davidson]

When King David said he was born in sin and shapened in iniquity was he the exception?

[Jermyn Davidson]

It seems that in your theology, it is possible, though unlikely, nevertheless possible for a person to be righteous on their own.

[Jermyn Davidson]

How do you explain how the Bible presents the effects of Adam's disobedience vs. Jesus Christ's obedience?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

When King David said he was born in sin and shapened in iniquity was he the exception?

Born in sin is not the same as "born a sinner" or "born guilty of sin".

Besides, he did not say he was born in sin. This should be a clue that you may have been taught something that comes from man's tradition rather than the Word.

The only person(s) ever to use the term "born in sin" or close to it were the Pharisees (John 9:34) and it is doubtful their doctrine was correct. After all, Jesus told us to beware of their doctrine.

Shapen in iniquity likewise does not mean "shaped with or by or possessing iniquity". It can only mean that David's mother sinned in getting pregnant with him. Thus he says "in sin did my mother conceive me." His mother conceived him, in sin. Yet we know of no scripture which attests to David being born of fornication. Therefore he is giving a hyperbolic expression of contrition and abasing himself before God. He is saying in effect "I suck, God, from start to finish."

He was not establishing a doctrine of inherent biological sinfulness. That would have to wait until Augustine.