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[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Zacharias and Elizabeth displayed their sinful nature on multiple occasions? I must of missed that.

Elizbeth and Zacharias were upright people no doubt. Pure before God. Do you supposes they ever had a day they lost there temper with one another or said something cross. The Bible doesn't record that, but I know that is likely if we associated with them today we could pick out faults. These people revered God and served Him and that is what God is looking for in people today.

We shouldn't be spiritually bipolar. Paul withstood Peter for a doctrinal issue. But we are told of Peter's blame, we are told when others Demas, Alexander the coppersmith, and Hymenaeus messed up.

It was not a doctrinal issue that Paul withstood Peter for. Peter got up and walked out on the Gentile believers when Jewish believers came. Peter was fearful of what his fellow Jews would think of him. This was another act of denial, I don't know them. God had already told peter that those Gentiles were to be part of the kingdom. I don't see this as a doctrinal issue, but an integrity issue.

Galations 2:11-13

Yet, Paul was steady as she goes. He also points out others like Timothy who was steady as she goes. People have all kinds of situations, and we stand in a pulpit telling them that Jesus can make them free. But then when they are blowing out a tire we show them some small print? Oh, well, it s like this...you are going to have inward struggles forever? No, who the son sets free is free INDEED!

Acts 15:37 And Barnabas determined to take with them John, whose surname was Mark. 38 But Paul thought not good to take him with them, who departed from them from Pamphylia, and went not with them to the work. 39 And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other:and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus;

2 Timothy 4:11 Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with thee:for he is profitable to me for the ministry.

I've been taught that this same Mark that Paul didn't want around is later the Mark that Paul is sending for.

The fact of the matter is that our flesh doesn't go away when we come to God. We just aren't supposed to follow it anymore. The weapons of warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God. It is only through God we overcome our flesh nature, but that happens through our consistent choice to follow God. Daily seeking the Holy Ghost through prayer and study.

GS, where is any sin higher or lower than the other? the whole venial sin and mortal sin issue was to make money. All sin is sin, and if a guy has inner struggle with looking at the wrong thing, even if he never acts out on it. He or she has monstrous issues. Same thing with lying, all liars have their part in a lake of fire. End of conversation.

That is my intent on my beginning statement that no one at present is perfect as most people understand the word. Of coarse a person isn't to advocate sin big or small, but as has already been shown through God's word that men do fail even the perfect one's. That is not an excuse or a license, but a fact. I fear God. If I fail in some way I repent and I don't take salvation for granite.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

If we want to walk after the flesh we can go right back into that bondage again. I do not. If Christians feel like they have to sin and that mistakes are o.k. they need to read Romans 6. God forbid that we should continue in sin that grace may abound, We are dead to sin.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Elizabeth and Zacharias were upright people no doubt. Pure before God. Do you supposes they ever had a day they lost there temper with one another or said something cross.

Teaching from a supposition? Can be used at times to merely hold debate. Yet, to suppose one thing, we can just as well supposed the opposite. Suppose they didn't have a cross word, maybe they were pretty cool people, who were mature and did exactly what was required of them?

Originally Posted by good samaritan

The Bible doesn't record that,

So, then there's no argument. People, and scholars have speculated all sorts of issues they believe Jesus to have. That Jesus had an anger issue which came out in an explosive way in His clearing of the temple. Even after His resurrection He returns to upbraid His disciples for their unbelief Mark 16:14. What is interesting about the Greek word ὠνείδισεν which is interpreted as "upbraid" is to actually grit your teeth in anger. The word appears in Matthew 27:44 interpreted in the KJV as "cast in the teeth." in Luke 6:22 NIV the word is interpreted as "insult." Yet, we understand what Jesus was doing, and we understand that He wasn't sinning before or after the resurrection. We can assume, suppose, and come up with all kinds of thoughts with conjecture. But, we need to present book, chapter, and verse.

Originally Posted by good samaritan

but I know that is likely if we associated with them today we could pick out faults.

Everyman's perception is his measure of truth? You might think they were the biggest jerks who ever donned a pair of sandals. While another may think their total hypocrites, another may think they sweat holy water, and their spit is anointing oil. But the writer of Luke records them as blameless, righteous. You and I just have that to work with, so we need to call it good.

Originally Posted by good samaritan

These people revered God and served Him and that is what God is looking for in people today.

Amen, that's what the scripture is saying, pondering whether or not they were ecclesiastical switch hitters is moot.

Originally Posted by good samaritan

It was not a doctrinal issue that Paul withstood Peter for. Peter got up and walked out on the Gentile believers when Jewish believers came. Peter was fearful of what his fellow Jews would think of him. This was another act of denial, I don't know them. God had already told peter that those Gentiles were to be part of the kingdom. I don't see this as a doctrinal issue, but an integrity issue.

Galatians 2:11-13

Read further to Galatians 2:14


But I saw that they were not properly following the truth of the Gospel. So I told Peter in front of everyone, "You're Judean, but you live like a person who is not of Judea. So how can you insist that people who are not Judean must live like Judeans? Just a little straightening out Peter not understanding the teachings. James tells Paul that thousands of Judeans have become Apostolics, been baptized in Jesus name and keep the law of Moses. Because they still continued in the Law in the temple because the temple was still standing. Paul understood he and the other Judean Christians had to continue in the Law system while the temple still stood. Yet, the understood that the precepts, and constructs of the law did nothing for them because the Messiah had come. They had understanding that the schoolmaster had done his job, and they were in the new and living way. Yet, they were to continue to be all things to all men. To the Judean, they were to be Judean, to the Greek they were to be Greek. Yet, Peter got all this a little botched up, and took it to an extreme. Where he separated himself from the Apostolic Greek Romans. Making everyone look bad, while he still had boudin in his teeth. Peter drew away other brothers. Paul had to straighten it all out because it was Peter's fault.

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I've been taught that this same Mark that Paul didn't want around is later the Mark that Paul is sending for.

We don't know what their argument was about number one. Both gentlemen have Roman patrician surnames. It may had something to do with Roman law, who they were, doctrinal issue, or that Paul was once a problem for the Diaspora Judeans living abroad in the Roman empire. We don't know neither is it important for us to know. We just are told they couldn't straighten out their issues so they had to be parted. Paul older has a different view on thing? Maybe, we assume much concerning Paul's relationship with Marcus.

Anything other that this is all speculation.

Originally Posted by good samaritan

The fact of the matter is that our flesh doesn't go away when we come to God.

It is a change of nature, the lion didn't eat straw like an ox on occasion. Only to go over to the lamb lying down with the wolf to devour it. No, the prophet paints a nice picture of a change of nature. Noah's ark, picture of the covenant kingdom. Where clean and unclean unite in salvation. We place too much on neophytes, instead of looking at them as babies. So, hit the ground running, some crawl, and are mature far past their years. Some sadly die in the cradle. But this is about a foot race, and we as preachers keep pointing towards the finish line.

Originally Posted by good samaritan

We just aren't supposed to follow it anymore.

Exactly, we are to follow Jesus Christ. The lion eating straw like an ox isn't eating thinking in his "inner lion" "wow, I sure would like to eat that lamb lying down with that wolf. That wolf is letting that lamb go to waste!" A little Tony's sprinkled on its head! Oooh boy, sum good eatin."

Originally Posted by good samaritan

The weapons of warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God. It is only through God we overcome our flesh nature, but that happens through our consistent choice to follow God. Daily seeking the Holy Ghost through prayer and study.

Amen, so what's the issue?

Originally Posted by good samaritan

That is my intent on my beginning statement that no one at present is perfect as most people understand the word.

Bro, I don't care how some people understand the word. I showed you the Greek in detail. In Matthew 5:48 Jesus is telling us to GROW UP in your relationship towards God.

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Of coarse a person isn't to advocate sin big or small, but as has already been shown through God's word that men do fail even the perfect one's. That is not an excuse or a license, but a fact. I fear God. If I fail in some way I repent and I don't take salvation for granted.

GS, God's word shows overcomers in Christ. More than a conqueror? A good tree cannot produce bad fruit?

Originally Posted by good samaritan

If we want to walk after the flesh we can go right back into that bondage again. I do not. If Christians feel like they have to sin and that mistakes are o.k. they need to read Romans 6. God forbid that we should continue in sin that grace may abound, We are dead to sin.

Bro, I'm bit confused with what you been posting. You are dead to sin, or are you having a cold to sin? I don't know many dead people who can do much. Other than throw dirt on them. So, if anyone is actually dead to sin, how do they sin?

[good samaritan]

Read further to Galatians 2:14


But I saw that they were not properly following the truth of the Gospel. So I told Peter in front of everyone, "You're Judean, but you live like a person who is not of Judea. So how can you insist that people who are not Judean must live like Judeans? Just a little straightening out Peter not understanding the teachings. James tells Paul that thousands of Judeans have become Apostolics, been baptized in Jesus name and keep the law of Moses. Because they still continued in the Law in the temple because the temple was still standing. Paul understood he and the other Judean Christians had to continue in the Law system while the temple still stood. Yet, the understood that the precepts, and constructs of the law did nothing for them because the Messiah had come. They had understanding that the schoolmaster had done his job, and they were in the new and living way. Yet, they were to continue to be all things to all men. To the Judean, they were to be Judean, to the Greek they were to be Greek. Yet, Peter got all this a little botched up, and took it to an extreme. Where he separated himself from the Apostolic Greek Romans. Making everyone look bad, while he still had boudin in his teeth. Peter drew away other brothers. Paul had to straighten it all out because it was Peter's fault.

11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles:but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

Peters motivation for snubbing the Gentiles wasn't that he didn't know the truth of the gospel and needed a little more teaching. It was for fear of what others might think about him. Peter was wrong.

14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Paul rebuked Peter in front of them all because it was something they all needed to hear. Those snobby Jews acted the way they did much out of ignorance. Peter on the other hand, had already been spoken to by God on the subject. Peter was afraid of what the Jews would think of him. Paul by calling out Peter actually teaches the whole bunch. Peter was actually following the crowd to do wrong.

[good samaritan]

1 Jhn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins:and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

This all I am meanting if we fail. No excuses just get up and go again.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

This all I am meaning if we fail. No excuses just get up and go again.

That's fine, when you are dealing with neophytes. Yet, in the very same epistle you have the same writer make this statement in the very next chapter.

1 John 3:8 the one who continually practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

There has to be a place where you have to come to τέλος full age adult, complete. You have to get weened from nursing, or you need to be taught again, the first principles of the doctrine of Christ. Peter explains how we start as infants but must grow up 1 Peter 2:2-3. Yet, the writer of Hebrews explains that you can't be a child forever, you need to get off the wet nursing Hebrews 5:11-13.

[good samaritan]

Galations 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

We should set the bar at sin not, but for those that have fallen we should seek for their restoration. Is this what you have been saying EB?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

We should set the bar at sin not, but for those that have fallen we should seek for their restoration. Is this what you have been saying EB?

Brother, what I've been saying is that little children have an advocate with the father. The New Testament language is babes in Christ, little children, sons, young men, elders. There has to be a place where we have to come to maturity in Christ. Or else you and I fall under what is found in Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. we read three chapters later in Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Bro, we need to grow up, and we know better. If I don't change your oil filter, or adjust the rear chain on your bike. If I leave your sheet rock out in the rain, if I don't put bar and chain oil in the chain saw when I cut down big wood. I know better, just like you and I we know better. Therefore for us, it might just be a harder way to go. James 3:1 gives a good admonishment, and one that we need to pay attention.

Thank you for staying with me within this discussion.

[Amanah]

I hear a lot of "God is the God of second chances" preaching. I could use a little more hell is hot but heaven is not.

Preachers use to preach

• if you are not reading your bible, praying, and talking in tongues every day, you are lost
• you need to pray for a burden and win souls.
• Be at the church 30-60 minutes before service for pre service prayer
• worship God like its a rapture test
• Get right or get left
• If you look like the world and talk like the world, guess what

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I hear a lot of "God is the God of second chances" preaching. I could use a little more hell is hot but heaven is not.

Preachers use to preach

• if you are not reading your bible, praying, and talking in tongues every day, you are lost
• you need to pray for a burden and win souls.
• Be at the church 30-60 minutes before service for pre service prayer
• worship God like its a rapture test
• Get right or get left
• If you look like the world and talk like the world, guess what

Amen!

Live like you were dying. Gives you a whole different perspective on things. Or go with out Gumbo, and Boudin for a few years. Stop eating bacon for a week. You will sober up right quick.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I hear a lot of "God is the God of second chances" preaching. I could use a little more hell is hot but heaven is not.

Preachers use to preach

• if you are not reading your bible, praying, and talking in tongues every day, you are lost
• you need to pray for a burden and win souls.
• Be at the church 30-60 minutes before service for pre service prayer
• worship God like its a rapture test
• Get right or get left
• If you look like the world and talk like the world, guess what

Sometimes I wonder if it matters what preachers preach. As you said, preachers used to preach. Yet here we are. Seems that preaching didnt stick? I've watched people who know and lived the truth just up and out of nowhere toss it all behind their back for the shallowest and dumbest of excuses. People raised on a steady diet of scripture and no fluff preaching. People with living examples before them of folks walking with God, through good and bad, success and failures. People who have testimonies of miracles, answered prayer, hard lessons learned, etc.

Gone like up in smoke, like it was all just a dream and they suddenly woke up and realized the REALLY important thing was some temporary flash in the pan. God was in the way of their "felt needs" so guess what they chose to struggle against? God, of all things. Deny self? Take up your cross? Yeah, well, this is a "special circumstance".

I'm learning that some folks (most?) just don't have it in them, and it dont look like God is putting it in them, either.

Maybe I'm just being pessimistic.

Or, maybe it's the End of Days.