It's Your Fault People Are Homosexual

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

to be honest it seems awesome Aquila.

It can be. It can also be intimidating. You can't hide in a house church. And when the elders or the brethren look around the room and stare you in the face, you know they are going to know if you are struggling. We're grace based. Renis explained it once by saying "... if you're acting like nothing's wrong, I know there's a problem. We're all broken. And this is where we come to be healed by the love of God." He said that in the first meeting I went to. I was still in "UPCI mode' with my button up shirt and slacks, every hair in place, nothing wrong with me, I'm holy, I have standards, and everything is just FAN-TASTIC. He looked me in the eyes and stared. Then he looked down as though he was listening to God. He looked back up and said, "You're a mess." And he began lovingly addressing what I was going through and struggling with, as tears flowed down his cheeks. I broke down. A few other men shared what they were going through in their personal lives, their marriages, their finances, and Renis had us stand and pair up to pray for one another. The transparency was shocking to me. I had come from a church wherein if you dared admit what you were struggling with, or struggling at all, something was wrong with you. And if you were in leadership, someone was just dying to knock you down to take your position. But here, there really aren't any positions. Elders are just mentors. There are no salaries. Every elder works for a living. They do what they do out of love. It's not a business or vocation. It's... a calling.

We confess our sins to one another and pray for one another when the Spirit brings an anointing of healing and reconciliation into the room.

[Amanah]

The UPC is changing Aquila, I wish you could have heard the preaching at BOTT 17, there was a call to transparency, many of the speakers broke down and shared things that they had struggled or are struggling with, ask nDavid, he can confirm this as he heard the messages also.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Amanah

The UPC is changing Aquila, I wish you could have heard the preaching at BOTT 17, there was a call to transparency, many of the speakers broke down and shared things that they had struggled or are struggling with, ask nDavid, he can confirm this as he heard the messages also.

personally, since I have Asperger's I can do without the touchy feeling stuff, and please don't expect eye contact . . .

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

The UPC is changing Aquila, I wish you could have heard the preaching at BOTT 17, there was a call to transparency, many of the speakers broke down and shared things that they had struggled or are struggling with, ask nDavid, he can confirm this as he heard the messages also.

That's beautiful.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

personally, since I have Asperger's I can do without the touchy feeling stuff, and please don't expect eye contact . . .

I can respect that.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Nothing really. I was just wondering what role the "isms and the -etics and the -phies" might become rather important to you.

I was implying the pattern of becoming more naturalistic in our thinking and somehow applying that to spirituality is wrong. Nothing wrong with isms. But why bother to learn more and more -isms and try to force that into theology?

You're right. And that was my point. We carry in us all the spiritual and emotional baggage of our sins. And in our flesh, we also carry the baggage of the sins and experiences of our ancestors.

We can mentally, but not physically:

Ezekiel 18:2-17 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge? (3) As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. (4) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. (5) But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right, (6) And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman, (7) And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment; (8) He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man, (9) Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD. (10) If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things, (11) And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife, (12) Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination, (13) Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him. (14) Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like, (15) That hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbour's wife, (16) Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither hath spoiled by violence, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment, (17) That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.

I firmly believe that "healing" can be spiritual, emotional, and physical.

And all of it can be done supernaturally, and without aid of natural healing.

These -etics do NOT apply to scripture and what the scripture says we need to move toward. the Scripture deals with the supernatural.

I believe that sometimes more is necessary to see one set free than having their inner man regenerated, or their soul comforted and encouraged.

Whatever has to be done can be done supernaturally without the need of the natural assistance.

That does not mean natural is wrong. It just means the bible is not implying the use of the natural when it speaks of healing in any category.

Sometimes a sin or behavior is rooted in an infirmity of the flesh. My God can heal spirit, soul, and body. But all too often, we fail to consider the physiological condition of our fallen flesh.

Reborn people DO NOT carry anything from the generations before except in their minds by mistake. I've been lately considering this idea of generational curses, etc., and more and more I am rejecting the notion. It's enough of a task to believe Romans 6 without having to grapple with the errors of generational sin concepts that defy the truths of Romans 6 on top of that.

You know, they used to try to cast the devil out of those stricken with cerebral palsy and other developmental disabilities. But today, we know that they don't need the devil cast out of them as much as they need a physical healing. Understanding the physiological aspects of their condition has helped us better pray for them and encourage them.

Not always true. When Jesus cast the devil of infirmity out of the woman. her spine that was bent over for years was immediately straightened. No one would have thought that PHYSICAL bowing over was caused by a spirit in her case. A spirit may and may not be the cause of physical ailments.

So, if they PROVE beyond a doubt that homosexuality can have a genetic component.

IF. I believe it's a lie. Even Johns Hopkins University sees that.

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/public...ity-and-gender

I don't believe we need science to pinpoint anything. When people are so sensitive to God and totally open in repentance and has renounced all sins in their hearts, God wipes everything away, even the things science can relate to as a problem. It's not more scientific awareness we need, but more repentance and openness to the will of God. Sometimes knowing more scientific facts about a condition can hinder our faith, because the mountain seems bigger than it actually is. Or even if it is a big mountain that science can show us it is, it will lessen our faith to know about it. I find that when I know nothing factually about the medical condition of a person, and just know they have suffering, I have far more faith than I do after hearing all the scientific details of what is wrong. All the details bog a persons' faith down.

Just pray," God, you know what's wrong with this person. And you can heal it right now miraculously in an instant no matter if it's spiritual, mental or physical, as well as you can gradually. I command that healing in Your name, Jesus!"

The more the mind focuses on the natural sciences, the less miracles people will see.

[Esaias]

Generational curses: God visits the iniquities of the fathers upon the children unto the 3rd and 4th generation OF THOSE WHO HATE HIM. He bestows mercy upon THOUSANDS of THOSE WHO LOVE AND OBEY HIM.

If you love and obey God, He does NOT visit the iniquities of your ancestors upon you.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Generational curses: God visits the iniquities of the fathers upon the children unto the 3rd and 4th generation OF THOSE WHO HATE HIM. He bestows mercy upon THOUSANDS of THOSE WHO LOVE AND OBEY HIM.

If you love and obey God, He does NOT visit the iniquities of your ancestors upon you.

And that was under the old covenant. That's compounded if you're born again and a new creation wherein old things have passed away and all things became new.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Generational curses: God visits the iniquities of the fathers upon the children unto the 3rd and 4th generation OF THOSE WHO HATE HIM. He bestows mercy upon THOUSANDS of THOSE WHO LOVE AND OBEY HIM.

If you love and obey God, He does NOT visit the iniquities of your ancestors upon you.

Amen

[Aquila]

It wouldn't be just for God to visit the iniquity of the fathers upon their descendants unless the actual sin was indeed present. Epigenetics scientifically shows that we actually do carry the choices and sciences of our ancestors, and that these tags indeed do predispose us to various behaviors, both natural and sinful. Evidence of sins effect on our very nature.

Not that the Bible needs it, but it does validate so much about our sinful nature, and our innate proclivity towards sin and other behaviors. It also should cause us to pause, considering what our choices and experiences could affect our own descendants.

It really puts a deeper perspective on sin. No man is an island.