More on Skirts

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Pliny

The ideas of shaving beards and wearing long sleeves are their own discussion. Therefore, a red herring as it relates to the discussion at hand.

Notreally, they go hand and hand. Hair, make up, pants, sleeves, beards, anything associated with outward physical appearance and "holiness standards" is totally relevant. After reading the rest of your post though I can see why you wouldn't want to discuss these things here.

Originally Posted by Pliny

I teach being clean shaven because in this society research has found that a clean shaven person is more readily accepted and trusted. These are important aspects in witnessing to the lost. We must be accepted and trusted and we must be found trustworthy. I do not find anywhere in scripture that being clean shaven is a sin; therefore, I teach men to shave.

So many problems with this answer.
1)You refer to culture, "this society", as a reason men should be clean shaven, yet refuse to accept that the same culture accepts pants/slacks/capris/culottes on women as perfectly feminine.
2)You make "research" (either polls or studies or both) to be your authority and guide on this issue rather than scripture. Quite telling.
3) While you are digging in your heels to defend the Law, and specifically your rigid interpretation of Dueteronomy 22:5, so much so that you condemn all female wearing of bifurcated garments as abomination, and denigrate anyone who doesn't agree, even later in this post calling me "far removed from God's Holy Spirit", you specifically CONTRADICT and undermine what GOD explicitly commanded in the same Law, when you "TEACH men to shave"

"You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard. ~Leviticus 27:17

God said "you shall not"
You admit you teach "you shall"

Based on what hermeneutic do you take Duet 22:5 as a law to be taught, Leviticus 27:17 as a law to be ignorned, or even contradicted, and (I assume) Leviticus 27:18 as a Law still in force (prohibition against tattoos).

Your consistency is gone with the wind.

Originally Posted by Pliny

As to wearing long sleeves, yes there is Bible for that but I will not get into that here.

Whoa nellie. There's Bible for wearing long sleeves? You asked for an example of a godly woman who wore pants, I asked you for an example of a godly man who shaved or wore long sleeves, and you respond "there's Bible for that"? Please do tell. Do tell where the godly man wore long sleeves or what the specific Bible teaching is on long sleeves.

Word of the day: Eisegesis

Originally Posted by Pliny

Wow! I am "hung up on wanting scripture". Yeah, I guess I like taking a Biblical stand. Apparently you do not.

**Brother you've treated the scripture like silly putty**

Explain how you take Deut 22:5 literal and make it a binding standard, yet ignore verses 8 and 11. And how you can teach something that is 100% contradictory to Leviticus 19:27, while using Leviticus 19:28 to teach against tattoos.

Originally Posted by Pliny

That shows just how far removed you are from God's Holy Spirit for the Bible is God's written expression of Himself. This explains a lot.

What is it with UCs? If there's a place they believe in taking liberty, it's when rushing to judgment about someone's heart, motives, and relationship with God. It's dangerously close to usurping GOd's role. I think y'all should cool it on these types of statements, but to each their own.

"I, the L ord , search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds."~Jeremiah 17:10

Originally Posted by Pliny

So do you believe a woman can wear a bikini to church? Can a man wear a skinny bathing suit to church?

Of course I do. :rolleyes

Why is it conservatives cannot frame a conversation with logic. All y'all know are black and white or the extremes. Preach "If we tell 'em they can wear 3/4 sleeves before long they'll be sleevless bless God!" See here is the problem with legalism as a whole:

The legalist does not trust God to ultimately do what He says He will do. They do not trust that the Holy Spirit dwelling within the new convert can produce holiness by having the senses discerned to know good and evil and following the leading of the indwelling Spirit. They believe we need hard and fast rules (standards) in black and white, do's and dont's.
Indeed these things are great for the appearance of "holiness" but ultimately neither bring life, nor have value for overcoming the flesh. The apsotle Paul has aptly addressed this:

"If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)-in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence."~Colossians 2:20-23

Originally Posted by Pliny

If you answer yes to these questions then there is little that I can say that can help you. If you answer no then you admit that you have a standard as well. You just draw the line differently than I

Wow. Well you got me. That was a great original argument, never heard it.

Actually, I answered it above, the Spirit will lead His own.
The root of the problem isn't "holiness standards" or even y'alls legalistic application of them. It's a deeper theological problem which misunderstands what holiness is, the source of holiness, imputed righteousness, and the new nature of the regenerate man/woman, and the very defintion of grace.

Originally Posted by Pliny

That is just one reason why the Bible is important. We need a Biblical standard so once again I will ask for a single passage where a godly woman wore pants.

Again I will ask for a single passage where a godly man shaved (as YOU teach they should).
Or a passage where someone wore long sleeves (as you implied you have Bible for).

Originally Posted by Pliny

Since you cannot provide any Biblical evidence I must conclude, after several pages and posts, you have NONE. I will stick with the Bible.

Right.....

Originally Posted by Pliny

I teach being clean shaven. I do not find anywhere in scripture that being clean shaven is a sin; therefore, I teach men to shave.

You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard.~Lev 19:27