House Rep Scalise Shot

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Looking back a it, I remember watching my 76 year old grandmother cry as she gave her savings, a mere $379, to help pay for her daughter's funeral. Bro, she was on a fixed income.

Bro, so what did the government do for you? When Elmer Gantry, and his church family tanked out on you. Why didn't you contact the government? Call, your state representative, find a Democrat, or a Republican senator?

Originally Posted by Aquila

I remember when our church raised money for our COW (Church on Wheels). It was $50 thousand dollars. We raised over $65 thousand dollars. When the pastor wanted all of us on the minister's team (and our wives) to go to Matt Maddix's, Soul Winner's Boot Camp, I found out that the tickets were $400 a pop. For my family, that would have been $800 dollars. Brother, that was half of what I was making in an entire month. I had an idea. At the minister's meeting, when the pastor emphasized how badly he wanted all of us and our wives to go, I suggested that we pay for the minister's and their wives out of the $15 thousand dollars remaining from raising money for the COW. He stared at me with a look that gave me chills. He said, "No can do. Brother Chris, the church has bills." What got me was this was $15,000 dollars in windfall profit that wasn't in the budget. And our financial reports had us well in the black across the board. I was confused. Why couldn't the church send our ministers? It would allow ALL of us to go. It would allow ALL of us to become fired up for evangelism, and it would provide financial relief we'd all so sincerely appreciate. In the end, two ministers and their wives went. The rest of the minister's team stayed home and was disappointed. When the two came back fired up, the team moved on their ideas like molasses. After about two months, those who went seemed to lose their fire and it was back to status quo with the Youth Group knocking doors. It was depressing.

Why? Because Aquila, the church you attended was really a Satanic coven. The pastor was actually a shapeshifting reptile connected to the Illuminati. The youth who would disappear from time to time where being sacrificed in secret catacombs underneath your church building. You see nothing gets past you guys. You have these flipped out stories, but never imagine why they are only one dimensional? They are posted only for the disgruntled, and if someone like me lifts up a hand to say wait a minute. Everyone comes up with their sad tale. My father was an atheist, but he was way more in tune with truth then some of the tripe i read posted. smh.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So, this is it? You're whole world view is made up of points of events which happen during your lifetime? Nothing outside of that exists, and you cherry pick other things which you feel fit your life story. So, when a dummy like me comes along, and has an awesome experience in his life with Christ. It is discounted because the Liberal party line is that Christianity is a lie. They don't really help people, they give huge amounts of money to fictitious missionaries in Ethiopia, yet their books are open enough for a bread eater to find the secret? Repeat after me, prayer room, long time stay, preferably face in the carpet, many tears to shed. Come back in a year tell us how it worked out for you.

A - if you read this, this exact thought came to my mind this morning.
I was not going to say anything about it, but with EB posting this I feel compelled to.
The thought was that your theology and world view have been shaped by your personal experiences and not by Truth.
By that I mean that you are valuing your personal experiences above Truth.
Your mother dies due to what you believe is a lack of medical care.
You believe that medical care should be provided to everyone.
You have two bad marriages, which evidently ended in a messy manner.
You believe that the government should get out of the marriage business, so evidently you somehow hold them responsible for something, here.

I want to say more, but feel that I should not.
I wish you would receive this the way I mean it, which is in love for a soul that I believe is struggling.
God Bless

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I've become jaded. I don't trust churches. I'm fine with small groups and gatherings. I don't trust incorporated institutional churches. I'm not saying there aren't any worthy of trust. It's just that I can't get myself to step out any more.

Could be that you don't work out enough or do much heavy labor. Testosterone levels plummet, and estrogen levels peak. Bad estrogen, which causes a man to have issues with muscle tone, weight gain, and mood swings. It can actually cause many issues of shortness of temper. That's the science, but spiritually, we don't have time to go wee wee wee all the way home. Things happen, feelings get hurt, but if you are the top secret special forces mojito man "the most interesting man in the world, you would do the heavy lifting and forgive and forget. That's love, that's not legalism. Legalism is lip service, but inside you are just a whiner who wants to only point out what was wrong with those you left behind. It is called killing them softly. They aren't here to defend themselves, but you paint a picture of them like they were all drinking infant blood and you walked in on them.

Show them some love, and forgive, forget (really forget) and move on.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You really missed my points in those other conversations.

They never drew Social Security or Medicare/Medicaid? I find that difficult to believe. But if they didn't, I think they should have. If they paid into it, it was there for them.

Medicare, no, father was military, SS, is our money. Yet, my church family over in Greece had their government steal their pensions. You may not know this but we have money taken out of our income during our lifetime. We worked for what we get back.

Originally Posted by Aquila

It's 2017. Having tens of thousands of Americans DIE from treatable conditions in a society that is as advanced as we are is a crime against humanity.

You should work for NPR. Listen, you are wrong, because you have no way of proving the above other than digging through Google for stats. Even if you find a crying towel to suit your needs you still don't have tangible proof as the situations each individual was in that caused their death. In other words all you have is a paper tiger. All you can save is what is in your local circle. You want to slay dragons, start by helping people who are located four steps in front of you. Crime against humanity is that Christ isn't preached and liberals want to take His place.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I know, you miss the good ol' days of Little House On the Prairie. I've just come to grips with the fact that the future is now.

Grow up, and really get over yourself.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I have retirement covered. But a catastrophic illness could wreck that.

Then I guess then and only then you will lay on your face in puddle of snot speaking in tongues and crying out to Jesus?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'm not pronouncing a curse. I'm just telling you the truth.

What truth? That l'll get sick and need government assistance?
Be terminally ill and be bankrupt, without any help unless I turn and accept your Statist religion? I'll stick with Jesus, and see how He takes care of it. He always took care of me in the past, I never had to want, neither has my family. So, I guess I got this far without your Bernie Sanders Sleigh Ride to Hell.

Originally Posted by Aquila

We all get sick. Eventually those sicknesses become more frequent. And eventually one of those sicknesses becomes terminal and the expense of caring for it can easily leave one bankrupt and unable to pay their medical bills without insurance or some form of comprehensive coverage. It's not a curse. Just a fact.

That fact is this, I looked at your picture of you with your dad and a few others. I strongly suggest that you get to taking care of your health. The picture of you and your dad doesn't look like you are too active. I don't mean running around, I mean working hard, and exercising harder.

But even the healthiest get sick. But Jesus takes care of us, so I'll stick with Him. You want Government insurance I strongly suggest you get the best policy on earth. You gonna need it boy. But I'm good. I'm free so far to do as I very well please concerning this issue.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

A - if you read this, this exact thought came to my mind this morning.
I was not going to say anything about it, but with EB posting this I feel compelled to.
The thought was that your theology and world view have been shaped by your personal experiences and not by Truth.
By that I mean that you are valuing your personal experiences above Truth.
Your mother dies due to what you believe is a lack of medical care.
You believe that medical care should be provided to everyone.

I want to thank you for your kind words and concern. Your sincerity does come out in your post. I thank you and wouldn't mind asking that you mention me in prayer sometime.

You're right, my experiences have opened my eyes to the fact that they are not unique. Many people are losing spouses, children, siblings, and parents because they can't afford the medication or care that they need. Having experienced it myself, my heart truly goes out to them. But instead of ONLY praying for them and offering them my spare twenty dollar bill, I want to make a difference. I want to see comprehensive healthcare reform that provides universal coverage. I don't believe that it is a "mandate" from God. I also don't believe that it is anathema to have or desire such social reform.

The way I look at it Obamacare opened some eyes that big reform is possible, but the plan itself was doomed to fail from the start. It is unsustainable with the market forces involved. We could go back to healthcare the way it was in the 1980's, but that isn't progress. In fact, it's dangerous. Remember how AIDS was spreading among the working poor and the uninsured? It was a public health disaster. And most of us today wouldn't have coverage. Who would want to go back to that era in healthcare? Or we could look around. We're the only Westernized nation without universal health insurance of some kind. Individually we pay far more for our care than they do, and the coverage and care we receive isn't as comprehensive as their own. There is a reason that EVERY advanced nation has chosen the challenge and issues that come along with universal health insurance over an entirely free market approach (which the market isn't truly "free" when major companies have the market cornered, control costs, coverage, and control purchasing). We could bite the bullet and move towards comprehensive reform. Yes, it comes with its challenges, no doubt. But those challenges aren't as daunting as what we're facing with our free market system. And I'm convinced that if we put good old fashioned American ingenuity and determination behind our universal system, it will no doubt be the best in the world. We didn't put a man on the moon by thinking small. We can dream big again. A problem this big isn't going to be solved by the mess of a thousand different Band-Aids. It's going to take a big solution. We just need the guts to do it. Then consider... all those spouses, children, siblings, and parents that would have been denied care or coverage under our current philosophy, ALL of them would then be able to breath easy and receive the care and coverage they need. Yes, my personal experience ties into this. But as I learned about the issue, I realized that it is about so much more. It would even be good for business. Imagine companies no longer having to even worry about providing insurance for employees. Imagine them being able to dedicate 100% of their revenue to business, research, and development. We shouldn't shoulder employers with the burden of insuring employees. We the people can do this. Our coverage would go with us if we changed jobs, went to school, or experienced divorce. The mobility it would create for people who are currently stuck in jobs they hate because they need the insurance would be stimulating to the job market. More disposable income for the average working American would contribute to stimulating the economy. Employers no longer having to pay into their employee's care will create jobs.

There is a reason why so many companies are relocating to nations with stable universal health insurance programs.

And then all these shootings. Imagine a society wherein mental health services are open to anyone early on "before" they snap and shoot up a school or business. It will impact crime rates and contribute to the over all health of every American.

A society of health, healing, and well being. It's all so much bigger than my feelings about having lost my mother.

You have two bad marriages, which evidently ended in a messy manner.
You believe that the government should get out of the marriage business, so evidently you somehow hold them responsible for something, here.

I've only had one bad marriage. I'm now with a lovely woman who is a blessing. I do believe that government should get out of the "marriage" business. I want to be fair. Gay people are tax payers, the law should be non-biased towards them. Sinners, yes. Criminals, no. Most that I know are good and decent enough people. My niece-in-law is a lesbian and is married to a woman she's been with for nearly 15 years (longer than the average marriage in the U.S.). I don't agree with her choice of lover, but I don't wish her any harm or unhappiness. But I DISAGREE with calling their union a "marriage". Because there is no such thing as "gay marriage". I'm for abolishing "civil marriage" and replacing it with a general "civil union". Let churches bless the couples we endorse into the bonds of "marriage". Allow those couples to seek any civil union and the benefits that come with it separately. "Marriage" shouldn't be reduced to or equated with a civil institution of government. Allow government to provide those services to citizens via a general "civil union". And if couples wish to be "married" without entering into a "civil union", so be it. Allow churches the right to recognize couples as being "married" even though the couple might not wish to have their relationship legally defined by "civil union". More personal and religious liberty all around.

I want to say more, but feel that I should not.
I wish you would receive this the way I mean it, which is in love for a soul that I believe is struggling.
God Bless

I really do receive your post well. I took a step away to contemplate how I felt about your observations. I have to be honest, you're right, my experiences have impacted the way I see things. But I'm not sure if I see my experiences changing my perspective of "truth". I don't believe anything I've stated above is anathema to Christianity. Nor do I believe my point of view compromises the "truth".

We have devout born again believers in Canada, throughout Europe, and frankly, nearly ever nation of the world. They don't all agree with the traditional "American conservative" political model. Many Canadians, Norwegians, Swedes, Belgians, Dutch, and Germans love their countries as much as we love ours, and many of them support what we would call more liberal social agendas like universal healthcare. It doesn't make them less Christian. It doesn't make them "evil communists". It means they simply have a different perspective relating to earthly government and politics. Certainly we're not saying that true born again Christians all around the world have to believe in the American Republican brand of Christianity or they have lost the "truth" and are Hell bound reprobates.

If we're saying that every born again Christian on the planet has to agree with the American conservative Republican brand of Christianity or they are somehow in grave error... in my opinion... THAT is valuing personal experience, bias, and opinion above "truth". I have a shocking truth to reveal for some here. There are truly born again Jesus name Christians walking in the Holy Spirit and in doctrinal truth who live in other countries and shake their heads at America. And if anyone thinks they have to agree with America and the Republican's socially conservative agenda to be Christian... that's truly valuing one's conservative American experience above truth.

Born again, Spirit filled Christians in America and all over the world can disagree on earthly politics and political systems... it doesn't mean they've compromised the truth. I can't believe that a born again Christians from around the world must believe in the politics of the Republican Party here in the United States or they are some how less saved than card carrying Republican Christians in the U.S.

I pray that you can receive my response to your post as I sincerely intend it to be received. I think you're being a bit too critical of me merely based on how my life experiences have shaped my politics.

[Aquila]

Evang.Benincasa, I read your posts. There's too much to get into point by point. I want to know your opinion of the Holman Bible Dictionary's definition of biblical "Justice". I'll share it here in case you haven't read it. If you strongly disagree, I don't judge you. But I would like to ask - Does it make a born again saint of God any less of a Christian if they agree?

Holman Bible Dictionary

Justice

The order God seeks to reestablish in His creation where all people receive the benefits of life with Him. As love is for the New Testament, so justice is the central ethical idea of the Old Testament. The frequency of justice is sometimes missed by the reader due to a failure to realize that the wide range of the Hebrew word mishpat , particularly in passages that deal with the material and social necessities of life.

Nature of justice Justice has two major aspects. First, it is the standard by which penalties are assigned for breaking the obligations of the society. Second, justice is the standard by which the advantages of social life are handed out, including material goods, rights of participation, opportunities, and liberties. It is the standard for both punishment and benefits and thus can be spoken of as a plumb line. “I shall use justice as a plumb-line, and righteousness as a plummet” (Isaiah 28:17 , REB).

Often people think of justice in the Bible only in the first sense as God's wrath on evil. This aspect of justice indeed is present, such as the judgment mentioned in John 3:19 . Often more vivid words like “wrath” are used to describe punitive justice (Romans 1:18 ).

Justice in the Bible very frequently also deals with benefits. Cultures differ widely in determining the basis by which the benefits are to be justly distributed. For some it is by birth and nobility. For others the basis is might or ability or merit. Or it might simply be whatever is the law or whatever has been established by contracts. The Bible takes another possibility. Benefits are distributed according to need. Justice then is very close to love and grace. God “executes justice for the orphan and the widow, and loves the strangers, providing them food and clothing” (Deuteronomy 10:18 , NRSV; compare Hosea 10:12 ; Isaiah 30:18 ).

Various needy groups are the recipients of justice. These groups include widows, orphans, resident aliens (also called “sojourners” or “strangers”), wage earners, the poor, and prisoners, slaves, and the sick (Job 29:12-17 ; Psalm 146:7-9 ; Malachi 3:5 ). Each of these groups has specific needs which keep its members from being able to participate in aspects of the life of their community. Even life itself might be threatened. Justice involves meeting those needs. The forces which deprive people of what is basic for community life are condemned as oppression (Micah 2:2 ; Ecclesiastes 4:1 ). To oppress is to use power for one's own advantage in depriving others of their basic rights in the community (see Mark 12:40 ). To do justice is to correct that abuse and to meet those needs (Isaiah 1:17 ). Injustice is depriving others of their basic needs or failing to correct matters when those rights are not met (Jeremiah 5:28 ; Job 29:12-17 ). Injustice is either a sin of commission or of omission.

The content of justice, the benefits which are to be distributed as basic rights in the community, can be identified by observing what is at stake in the passages in which “justice,” “righteousness,” and “judgment” occur. The needs which are met include land (Ezekiel 45:6-9 ; compare Micah 2:2 ; Micah 4:4 ) and the means to produce from the land, such as draft animals and millstones (Deuteronomy 22:1-4 ; Deuteronomy 24:6 ). These productive concerns are basic to securing other essential needs and thus avoiding dependency; thus the millstone is called the “life” of the person (Deuteronomy 24:6 ). Other needs are those essential for mere physical existence and well being: food (Deuteronomy 10:18 ; Psalm 146:7 ), clothing (Deuteronomy 24:13 ), and shelter (Psalm 68:6 ; Job 8:6 ). Job 22:5-9 ,Job 22:5-9,22:23 ; Job 24:1-12 decries the injustice of depriving people of each one of these needs, which are material and economic. The equal protection of each person in civil and judicial procedures is represented in the demand for due process ( Deuteronomy 16:18-20 ). Freedom from bondage is comparable to not being “in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and lack of everything” (Deuteronomy 28:48 NRSV).

Justice presupposes God's intention for people to be in community. When people had become poor and weak with respect to the rest of the community, they were to be strengthened so that they could continue to be effective members of the community—living with them and beside them (Leviticus 25:35-36 ). Thus biblical justice restores people to community. By justice those who lacked the power and resources to participate in significant aspects of the community were to be strengthened so that they could. This concern in Leviticus 25:1 is illustrated by the provision of the year of Jubilee, in which at the end of the fifty year period land is restored to those who had lost it through sale or foreclosure of debts ( Leviticus 25:28 ). Thus they regained economic power and were brought back into the economic community. Similarly, interest on loans was prohibited (Leviticus 25:36 ) as a process which pulled people down, endangering their position in the community.

These legal provisions express a further characteristic of justice. Justice delivers; it does not merely relieve the immediate needs of those in dire straits (Psalm 76:9 ; Isaiah 45:8 ; Isaiah 58:11 ; Isaiah 62:1-2 ). Helping the needy means setting them back on their feet, giving a home, leading to prosperity, restoration, ending the oppression (Psalm 68:5-10 ; Psalm 10:15-16 ; compare 107; Psalm 113:7-9 ). Such thorough justice can be socially disruptive. In the Jubilee year as some receive back lands, others lose recently-acquired additional land. The advantage to some is a disadvantage to others. In some cases the two aspects of justice come together. In the act of restoration, those who were victims of justice receive benefits while their exploiters are punished (1 Samuel 2:7-10 ; compare Luke 1:51-53 ; Luke 6:20-26 ).

The source of justice As the sovereign Creator of the universe, God is just (Psalm 99:1-4 ; Genesis 18:25 ; Deuteronomy 32:4 ; Jeremiah 9:24 ), particularly as the defender of all the oppressed of the earth (Psalm 76:9 ; Psalm 103:6 ; Jeremiah 49:11 ). Justice thus is universal (Psalm 9:7-9 ) and applies to each covenant or dispensation. Jesus affirmed for His day the centrality of the Old Testament demand for justice (Matthew 23:23 ). Justice is the work of the New Testament people of God (James 1:27 ).

God's justice is not a distant external standard. It is the source of all human justice (Proverbs 29:26 ; 2Chronicles 19:6,2 Chronicles 19:9 ). Justice is grace received and grace shared (2 Corinthians 9:8-10 ).

The most prominent human agent of justice is the ruler. The king receives God's justice and is a channel for it (Psalm 72:1 ; compare Romans 13:1-2 ,Romans 13:1-2,13:4 ). There is not a distinction between a personal, voluntary justice and a legal, public justice. The same caring for the needy groups of the society is demanded of the ruler (Psalm 72:4 ; Ezekiel 34:4 ; Jeremiah 22:15-16 ). Such justice was also required of pagan rulers (Daniel 4:27 ; Proverbs 31:8-9 ).

Justice is also a central demand on all people who bear the name of God. Its claim is so basic that without it other central demands and provisions of God are not acceptable to God. Justice is required to be present with the sacrificial system (Amos 5:21-24 ; Micah 6:6-8 ; Isaiah 1:11-17 ; Matthew 5:23-24 ), fasting (Isaiah 58:1-10 ), tithing (Matthew 23:23 ), obedience to the other commandments (Matthew 19:16-21 ), or the presence of the Temple of God (Jeremiah 7:1-7 ).

Justice in salvation Apart from describing God's condemnation of sin, Paul used the language and meaning of justice to speak of personal salvation. “The righteousness of God” represents God in grace bringing into the community of God through faith in Christ those who had been outside of the people of God (particularly in Romans but compare also Ephesians 2:12-13 ). See Law; Government ; Poverty ; Righteousness ; Welfare.

Stephen Charles Mott
http://www.studylight.org/dictionari...hilite=JUSTICE

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

The above is confused, because the Church isn't the government. Your whole brouhaha is about a government putting us on the dole.

It's because Aquila doesn't believe in a God who provides. He doesn't believe that when we are hurt or in pain or in financial distress, that God can deliver us from it. All God requires is faith as a grain of mustard seed. Not the size of a mustard seed, but faith that - like the mustard seed - will grow to enormous proportions.

Aquila's faith in a God who provides is stagnant (maybe non-existent?), so he has to turn to the god of government to provide, instead. To him, they're the only source of help in our time of need.

He doesn't believe in the old woman, who gave the last of her oil and grain to the preacher instead of her son, and in return was provided with enough oil to pay off her debt and live securely for rest of her life. That's just a fable, not something that could happen today.

Oh, no!

We need big daddy goobermint to come in and save the day, like Mighty Mouse to the rescue.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Jito463

It's because Aquila doesn't believe in a God who provides. He doesn't believe that when we are hurt or in pain or in financial distress, that God can deliver us from it. All God requires is faith as a grain of mustard seed. Not the size of a mustard seed, but faith that - like the mustard seed - will grow to enormous proportions.

Aquila's faith in a God who provides is stagnant (maybe non-existent?), so he has to turn to the god of government to provide, instead. To him, they're the only source of help in our time of need.

He doesn't believe in the old woman, who gave the last of her oil and grain to the preacher instead of her son, and in return was provided with enough oil to pay off her debt and live securely for rest of her life. That's just a fable, not something that could happen today.

Oh, no!

We need big daddy goobermint to come in and save the day, like Mighty Mouse to the rescue.

The Lord our provider, if we will only believe Him. All thing are possible to those who believe.

[Nitehawk013]

I think we are all missing the real travesty of the last couple pages. Maddix was charging $400 a pop to train to be a soul winner? WOWZERS!

I guess that explains how he has enough money to live as a pseudo-evangelist, self help monkey pimping out his kid's books on social media these days.

As to the rest of this stuff, I just see pendulum swing nonsense. EB and Aquila swinging wild like unhinged pendulums to the extreme sides. One far left wacko and the other far right wacko. Both offensive. Both rude. Both condescending. Honestly...both giving ol' Dan Alicea a run for who can be the most disrespectful and classless posters in history. And yet...no reprimands. No temp bans. No smacked hands at all. In fact, if anything it will likely be me that gets an infraction for calling attention to these two acting like a couple of forum bullies instead of them for spilling their vitriol into almost EVERY. STINKIN. THREAD. they ever take part in.

But it's cool. You can be rude, call names and attack left and right with no regard for the fact that you are supposed to at least pretend you are a saved person on here. As long as you throw in a little joke now and then. Fire off a funny gif. Claim some sort of SJW status or end your multi line post attacking other people with some foolish nonsense about "do you even lift".

Both of you are childish and need to take a break. Grow up. You guys make old (as in a few years ago) Bro. Price appear more balanced and kind than the two of you act.