Do you think Revelations is enigmatic?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It's a matter of what bondage means. Does it mean he cannot do anything?

Have you ever bound the devil in a situation in your prayers? Whatever you bind on earth will be bound heaven.

Col 2 says Jesus SPOILED the devil. Jesus said you cannot spoil a strongman unless you first bind him. So if He spoiled the devil, and you cannot spoil a strongman til you first bind him, would it not mean that Jesus bound the devil? The problem is determining to what degree he is bound. We assume total and complete bondage.

But the Bible often made statem,nets that people totally misunderstood. They assumed it meant something but found out they were very wrong.

For example, what would you say if I told you the devil was destroyed?

Pause and think of that.

Now read this:

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

. Jesus was manifest in flesh to destroy the devil. Through death he would destroy the devil.

What people assume this might mean is not what it actually means, obviously. It did not destroy the devil's existence. It dealt a lethal blow to his power.

And that is fulfilled. And we have a problem thinking BOUND cannot possible be fulfilled after reading the devil was destroyed?

It is not that the devil is not bound, it is what we think bondage speaks about.

You said Jesus must be a flake if this is the millennium and the devil is bound. However, your same reasoning flies in the face of Heb 2:14 where we reads the devil is destroyed. It's just that saying bondage must be the way you imagine it is simply not the truth. Bondage can be in degrees. And every time I write this explanation, you must not have noticed it. But when you read Rev 20 theory ugly you will find the bondage was strictly related to deceiving the nations in a SPECIFIFC ISSUE. To gather them together against the holy city. THat is what the bondage refers to.

No where does Rev 20 say the devil cannot cause crime and sin. Yet we are told he is destroyed in Heb 2:14 and he is still active. So it is the manner of understanding what God intended us to know by saying he is bound.

You assume things like wars cannot exist if he is bound. But what if that is not what God meant for you to understand at all? Like I said, if you had not know anything about the gospel and the word of God other than CHrist came and died on the cross, and you read Heb 2:14 you might be tempted to think Satan does not even exist any more. It said he was destroyed. But when oyou learn the destruction refers to a specific angle of disarming his Devils and taking those who want to be saved out from his prison, it all fits. It's not perhaps the way you would phrase it, but the bible did. And I claim that's the case with bondage in Rev 20 as well.

You seem to really struggle with thinking outside your box. You have to come to the conclusion that what you determined a term to mean may be offkey and somewhat incorrect compared to God's intention. If you cannot do that and are unwilling to do what multiplied hundreds of thousands have had to do with their beliefs at one time or other, you cannot think outside your box and simply believe you are right because you are right. Are you open enough to consider an alternative explanation, or are you closed to it?

Bound is bound. Released is released. We don't "bind Satan". We cannot incarcerate him and keep him in isolation. We can bind his activities and essentially push him out of our lives, homes, etc.. But he's very much roaming freely as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

If we, and the world at large, is dealing with Satan who is "bound" right now... Will we lose all power to bind his activity as it relates to the saints of God once he is released at the end of this hellish millennium you believe we are in? And if the world today is what we have with Satan bound... what unimaginable horrors will be unleashed when Satan is released after this "millennium"?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Aquila

So, Satan isn't bound. Nor are his demons. Do we have authority to bind his activities as they might affect us? Yes. Yet Satan roams freely deceiving as he finds the opportunity to do so.

2 Corinthians 4:4 (ESV)
In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Aquila, there is also a dichotomy between where Ephesians 1 says we are and how it seems when we are dealing with our day to day lives.
Is the Church really fleshing out the body of Christ in the world? In some ways yes, but in some ways there seems to be a disconnect.

Ephesians 1King James Version (KJV)
1..Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2..Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3..Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4..According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5..Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6..To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7..In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8..Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9..Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10..That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11..In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12..That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13..In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14..Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
15..Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16..Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17..That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18..The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19..And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20..Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21..Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22..And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23..Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

But, how does it "REVEAL" these things when you yourself said:

One can speculate on details regarding fulfillment. Even Preterist scholars have speculated on elements of Preterist interpretation. However, the Revelation reveals the overall truth that the wickedness of the world will be judged, Christ will return, and His Kingdom will be stablished. Followed by a New Creation.

[Aquila]

Y'all know that 30,000 children died of malnutrition and lack of water last night, during your hellish millennium don't you? Oh well, that's Preterism. This is as good as it gets until Jesus returns and... well... does what? Preterism is even rather divided on if Jesus will literally return or not. In fact, Preterism is divided among Preterists who believe Jesus will return bodily and do "something" (?) vs. Preterists who believe even Christ's return is complete and no physical return is to be expected.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

One can speculate on details regarding fulfillment. Even Preterist scholars have speculated on elements of Preterist interpretation. However, the Revelation reveals the overall truth that the wickedness of the world will be judged, Christ will return, and His Kingdom will be stablished. Followed by a New Creation.

Revelation 22:18-19 overlooks speculation?

Also what does stablish mean?

Do you mean establish?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Y'all know that 30,000 children died of malnutrition and lack of water last night, during your hellish millennium don't you?

If you were healed miraculously of cancer and never made it to heaven.

Which is worse?

Originally Posted by Aquila

Oh well, that's Preterism.

You want this discussion to go this way Chris?

Originally Posted by Aquila

This is as good as it gets until Jesus returns and... well... does what? Preterism is even rather divided on if Jesus will literally return or not. In fact, Preterism is divided among Preterists who believe Jesus will return bodily and do "something" (?) vs. Preterists who believe even Christ's return is complete and no physical return is to be expected.

Explain 1st John 3:3-6

[Aquila]

I'd also like to mention that Satan isn't bound by the church prior to the Millennium. Jesus Himself doesn't even bother with dealing with the demon. An angel binds Satan in the abyss for a thousand years.

Revelation 20:1-3 (ESV)
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. 2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended.

But let me guess, just like Satan is bound, but not bound. Just as the resurrection is the resurrection, but not the resurrection. Just as the thousand years isn't really a thousand years. And like Christ ruling the nations, but not really ruling the nations....The angel really isn't an angel, and the abyss really isn't the abyss.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

So, Satan isn't bound. Nor are his demons. Do we have authority to bind his activities as they might affect us? Yes. Yet Satan roams freely deceiving as he finds the opportunity to do so.

2 Corinthians 4:4 (ESV)
In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Does Satan mess with you Aquila?

Does he and his demons effect your life currently?

Can you or have you ever cast a demon out of anyone?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'd also like to mention that Satan isn't bound by the church prior to the Millennium. Jesus Himself doesn't even bother with dealing with the demon. An angel binds Satan in the abyss for a thousand years.

Revelation 20:1-3 (ESV)
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. 2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended.

But let me guess, just like Satan is bound, but not bound. Just as the resurrection is the resurrection, but not the resurrection. Just as the thousand years isn't really a thousand years. And like Christ ruling the nations, but not really ruling the nations....The angel really isn't an angel, and the abyss really isn't the abyss.

Chris, does Satan have power over you?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

If you were healed miraculously of cancer and never made it to heaven.

Which is worse?



You want this discussion to go this way Chris?






Explain 1st John 3:3-6

Great point, I haven't met a saint who can honestly say they're sinless, in the ghetto of a millennium.