Submission? Or Power and Control?

[Aquila]

Beware of the doctrines of both men and devils.

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


Hebrews 13:9
Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

If something ISN'T biblical... it's not biblical. If something is rooted in occult practice and witchcraft... it's abomination. Sweet and bitter water cannot flow from the same well.

Consider the sources....

“Hair has always been considered strong magic; witches casting an evil spell needed a piece of hair from their victims to make it truly efficacious.”
The Power of Magic Secrets and Mysteries Ancient and Modern

“Hair has psychical powers that act as a protection from evil entities of the etheric world; cutting of the hair was done in a ritual to discontinue this protection; it is symbolic of strength.”
The Donning International Encyclopedic Psychic Dictionary

“So widespread was the faith in the power of hair that in Scotland it was ominous even to meet a woman with her hair uncovered. If a woman shook her hair at you, they believed anything could happen.”
Hair, Sex, Society and Symbolism

“St. Paul greatly feared the ‘angels’ (spirits) that a woman could command by letting their hair flow loose, he insisted that women’s heads be covered in church lest they draw demons into the building.” In referring to 1 Corinthians 11:10, Walker interprets “because of the angels,” to mean the spirits were supposed to be attracted or controlled by unbound female hair.”
Barbara Walker Enc. of Myths and Secrets 367.
Juli Jasinski My Hair, My Glory 12.

Notice the works this doctrine is associated with. It should turn the stomach. This is witchcraft. It is written...

Deuteronomy 18:9-12 (KJV)
9When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Abomination.

[n david]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

PO - as before stated, ILG does not want an honest debate.
Notice that she did not dispute my statement or ndavids that she is vehemently anti-UPC.
So, I see no point in engaging with her.

Most of her threads are rants against UPC officials/authors. I'm not interested in debate, especially when the post is written as a statement for an anti-UPC group.

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Now, let me say that the entire uncut hair equals special favor with God thing is not my viewpoint.
I do believe that there is power in submission and obedience, even for men.
But, ILG's entire focus is to spread doubt and disbelief in ANY doctrine espoused by the UPC.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I am probably speaking for ILG, but I believe that she doesn't want to engage in statements and neither do I. I want cold, hard, Biblical truth backed by scripture. Even if I don't believe or agree, I want scripture.

Why do you believe this and can you back it up? "ILG, I don't agree with this because I believe the scriptures are clear..." That seems relatively easy.

Thanks PO. What I have no interest in is in defending myself against attacks. I used to do it but it became very emotionally exhausting. When I see that a person doesn't want real discussion but wants to attack and belittle, I simply avoid the person posting. If I were in the position of believing uncut hair, and felt it was so important, I would try and explain the position for those reading, no matter what I thought of the original poster.

[n david]

Originally Posted by ILG

When I see that a person doesn't want real discussion but wants to attack and belittle, I simply avoid the person posting.

Ironic, considering almost every single thread you've created was to attack and belittle the UPC and its ministers/authors.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by n david

Ironic, considering almost every single thread you've created was to attack and belittle the UPC and its ministers/authors.

I didn't attack anyone. I simply stated my opinion that what is taught about submission is really about power and control and backed up my opinion with actual quotes. I have done this with all the essays I've written. Anyone is welcome to defend anything pro or con.

[ILG]

Disagreement does not equal attack.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by ILG

Thanks PO. What I have no interest in is in defending myself against attacks. I used to do it but it became very emotionally exhausting. When I see that a person doesn't want real discussion but wants to attack and belittle, I simply avoid the person posting. If I were in the position of believing uncut hair, and felt it was so important, I would try and explain the position for those reading, no matter what I thought of the original poster.

That is also Ben Shapiro's point - "When the Left uses "intersectionality" as validation of their arguments, it is the conservative's duty to disregard their character-based arguments."

Shapiro uses this view in politics, but we could also use this in Christian debate as well.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Beware of the doctrines of both men and devils.

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


Hebrews 13:9
Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

If something ISN'T biblical... it's not biblical. If something is rooted in occult practice and witchcraft... it's abomination. Sweet and bitter water cannot flow from the same well.

Consider the sources....

“Hair has always been considered strong magic; witches casting an evil spell needed a piece of hair from their victims to make it truly efficacious.”
The Power of Magic Secrets and Mysteries Ancient and Modern

“Hair has psychical powers that act as a protection from evil entities of the etheric world; cutting of the hair was done in a ritual to discontinue this protection; it is symbolic of strength.”
The Donning International Encyclopedic Psychic Dictionary

“So widespread was the faith in the power of hair that in Scotland it was ominous even to meet a woman with her hair uncovered. If a woman shook her hair at you, they believed anything could happen.”
Hair, Sex, Society and Symbolism

“St. Paul greatly feared the ‘angels’ (spirits) that a woman could command by letting their hair flow loose, he insisted that women’s heads be covered in church lest they draw demons into the building.” In referring to 1 Corinthians 11:10, Walker interprets “because of the angels,” to mean the spirits were supposed to be attracted or controlled by unbound female hair.”
Barbara Walker Enc. of Myths and Secrets 367.
Juli Jasinski My Hair, My Glory 12.

Notice the works this doctrine is associated with. It should turn the stomach. This is witchcraft. It is written...

Deuteronomy 18:9-12 (KJV)
9When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Abomination.

Thanks, that's a beginning.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

For once in this forum history, I would love for someone to lay out sound Biblical points as to why ILG is wrong in her views or whether or not the authors are right or wrong in their views.

Its been done before, but ILG always takes it personal and refuses to actually defend what she posts in a logical manner. Additionally, the holy magic hair doctrine has already been refuted here before, numerous times. Nobody here (to my knowledge) believes holy magic hair nonsense.

It is always so easy to throw out insults. Is there someone who has Biblical wisdom to respond intelligently to ILG on this issue - for once? Would that be too much to ask?

Biblical wisdom often demands a response of not responding.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

You've let down your hair, no pun intended ( ), and gotten bolder in your posts. Good on you, Girl! I thought there had to be a little thunder somewhere inside of you.

WB.