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  #21  
Old 08-11-2017, 11:10 AM
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Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
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Re: can every...

goodness..just seen this...actually my grand daughter posted it from somewhere she thought was interesting....she wants to help me post....actually it is interesting...i will write some of my thoughts about it later today....my grand daughter is helping me in the office...
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  #22  
Old 08-11-2017, 11:11 AM
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Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
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Re: can every...

i do think many churches have lost the real vision of the work of the church...but that is just my opinion...
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  #23  
Old 08-11-2017, 12:19 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: can every...

Quote:
Originally Posted by n david View Post
His statement is hyperbole.

But let's talk about the extreme example he gave: 30,000 people died from lack of food and water. That is indeed sad. We should do what we can to help those in need. But the focus of the church is not modern, liberal social justice.

It's not the job of the church to provide housing, employment, food, water, healthcare etc. The primary mission of the church is the Great Commission: Go and make disciples. Salvation is the primary mission of the church, not liberal social justice.
You might be surprised, but I agree with you.

However, my answer is nuanced. It is not the job of THE CHURCH to provide housing, employment, food, water, healthcare, etc. And yes, the primary mission of the church is the Great Commission. To go and make disciples. Salvation is the primary mission of the church.

To be a disciple is to follow after another. In this context, it is to follow after Christ and the way of God. God's Word DEMANDS justice for widows, orphans, aliens, workers, the poor, prisoners, slaves, the sick, and the oppressed. To preach and attempt to make disciples of slaves, without advocating the breaking of their chains is a failure to reach the fullness of that calling. To preach to the poor without advocating for their welfare is to fail at the fullness of that calling. To preach to widows, orphans (single parent households), workers, aliens, oppressed, and the sick, without advocating for their welfare is to fail at the fullness of that calling. YES, our primary concern is salvation. But not just some watered down "spiritualized" salvation. We are to seek their TOTAL SALVATION. The salve is to also be freed. The oppressed is to also be set at liberty. The widow is to also be cared for. The orphans are to also be relieved. The worker is to also be treated fairly and paid fairly. The sick is to also be cared for. The alien is to also be given asylum. This is the FULNESS of our message.

Now, I'm not saying that it is the responsibility of the CHURCH to provide these things. No, it is the responsibility of the church to seek to save the lost and to advocate for the welfare of those who have specific needs which keep them from being able to participate in aspects of the life of their community. Especially when life itself might be threatened. We rightfully advocate for the lives of the unborn, yet we become snarling Sodomites at the mere notion that once born they and their families should be entitled to the provision of healthcare and basic food and shelter. We snarl at the idea that the child's father should make a living wage which might allow the mother to stay home and not have to work, or that would prevent him from having to work two jobs and thereby be denied the time necessary to be a father in the home. This prevailing attitude is inconsistent with the biblical notion of social justice.

The church must be an advocate. Did you know that the original abolitionists were deeply convicted Christians and churches? The original advocates for civil rights and the abolishment of segregation were not liberals, it was churches, pastors, and ministers. The politicians only got on board when they saw the reverberations of the Christian impact on the issue. Sunday school began as an effort to not only reach children for Christ, but to teach those children how to read that they might aspire to greater opportunities back during the days of child labor. If churches had the social apathy regarding racism, discrimination, worker oppression, child labor, and slavery (to name just a few issues) back when those issues were indeed facing society... we'd still have them today. In fact, it's scary to me because we've become so fat, spoiled, and comfortable in our liberties that we feel we can freely have an opinion to the contrary of those who fought against those institutionalized abuses.

The church should openly CONDEMN the institutionalized abuses that the widows, orphans, aliens, workers, the poor, prisoners, slaves, the sick, and the oppressed experience.

I find it interesting that more and more missionary organizations and missionaries are speaking out on behalf of the impoverished and the sick. Ministering in nations that the "free market" has exploited, they see first hand what devastation unbridled corporate greed can bring to entire countries. They can see the sweatshops where so many name brand clothes are made and the shanty towns were the workers work for slave wages and often die of common illnesses that could be treated if they only had the money or insurance needed to receive care. They are eye witnesses to the Sodomite greed that runs rampant in our society today.

So yes, we agree. It isn't the church's role to provide every need for those oppressed groups in our society. However, it is the church's duty to preach a message that not only saves the soul, but truly demands that the captives be free from the bondage of lack and destitution.

And while charity was necessary for those immediate needs of those facing sudden hardship, the poor tithe wasn't charity. The rights of the gleaners was not a form of charity. The Jubilee wasn't intended to be a charitable option. These were SOCIAL MANDATES. The PROPHETS condemned oppression and DEMANDED that the NATION repent and give justice to these needy groups.

So, we agree that it isn't the role of the church to provide those needs... but rather to demand that those needs be provided by the nation in a manner that is unbiased and open to all. The church should remind the churlish American Sodomites of Wall Street and Corporate America that, "You are your brother's keeper." In the Torah we read that the laws that governed usury, pledges, wages, gleaning rights, the poor tithe, etc. were designed that there be no poor in the land of Israel. That was nearly 4,000 years ago. That was radically progressive compared to the heathen nations around them who made sport of the poor and the destitute, or relegated them to the most abusive and sickening forms of slavery. Israel was a shining beacon of progressive hope to the ancient world. And she was indeed hated for it by the rich and powerful. You see, when Jesus says, "For ye have the poor with you always", it was an indictment against the nation's failure to ensure that there were no poor and destitute among the children of Israel.

And so the church must be a prophetic voice that cries out to our nation, demanding obedience to God, and demanding social provision and justice for widows, orphans, aliens, workers, the poor, prisoners, slaves, the sick, and the oppressed.

Without this, the Great Commission is but a "spiritualized" message that offers no hope or relief from the conditions that stifle the soul and crush the spirit. Society will not care about what we know, until it knows how much we care. It is our job to bring blessing, peace, and justice to every society wherein we flourish. Without doing so, we cease to be the salt of the earth and we fail to deliver the real world impact of the Great Commission.
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