Submission? Or Power and Control?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ILG

I wrote the piece so you are welcome to ask me what I meant.

It is bad because we should not be seeking power and control in this sense. We should trust God, not our own ability to keep rules so we can control outcomes.

I understand that we never do this through human discipline minus God.

But train up a child in the way they should go still a basic of teaching to obey scripture. You have the choice whether to obey, or disobey. Legalism, is saying and doing not. Not, a haircut and a bow tie. ILG, do you believe that you can live an overcoming life without transgressions? Or do you believe that you are saved in sin and stay in sin?

[ILG]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Captain

I didn’t say it did.

Okay.

That doesn't make any sense in context to what the Bible actually says. Paul is laying out God's natural hierarchy of authority; Christ, husband, wife. A woman has a specified power through angelic protection if she remains submitted to this stated hierarchy as evidenced by her retaining a show of her feminine submission i.e. her long hair.

Now, obviously a woman can keep her hair long and still be an otherwise "clamorous woman" but in full context of what Paul is saying here, clearly the point is the overall hierarchy itself and the woman's place in that hierarchy.

But I am looking at the results of the applied interpretation. When you take the interpretation of uncut hair=women can control their environment without sin (the quote from the booklet) I think that is a far stretch from "specified power" as you mention. The bible says she will have power on her head because of the angels but we have no real idea of what that means. I am saying it's pretty clear to me that it doesn't mean women can control their environment without sin as the authors of this booklet say.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

What book of the New Testament did your pastor write?

Like I said, what if you are wrong?

That's what he said. I thought most UPC'ers believed this. I stand corrected.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

The Greek Judeans, Jerome, and Reina-Valera tell you it is growing hair, not a specific length. It is growing, therefore if you CUT it, you cease the growing process. Simple?

Then men can trim the bottoms and have "short" hair.

[ILG]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

But, what if you are wrong?

The fear of that kept me from looking at this objectively the whole time I was in UPC. When I was able to finally trust that I could look at the answer and that God would help me deal with whatever the truth was, no matter what it cost me, I was then able to finally see past the fear and doctrine that I was taught.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

ILG, do you believe that you can live an overcoming life without transgressions? Or do you believe that you are saved in sin and stay in sin?

I believe that God gives us the power to overcome sin. That doesn't mean we are perfect. For example, that second donut might be gluttony but I think God leaves a little room for human weakness.

[Scott Pitta]

The second donut is for me

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

The second donut is for me

I already ate it. Human weakness.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ILG

Yes, I do know what I am getting into, which is why I limit it to what I feel I am capable of doing and/or defending.

Here is the thing....I don't attack anyone personally here. I write about ideas and open discussion about those ideas. Those who disagree attack me personally. It's simply uncalled for and that is what PO is pointing out and I am glad she is because it's hard to point out when you are the one being attacked and insulted. What I ask for is open and honest discussion without the nastiness. It is possible.

Sis, did Jesus, and John the Baptist call the pharisees serpents, a brood of vipers, the children of Satan? Matthew 3:7, Matthew 12:34, Matthew 23:33, Luke 3:7, John 8:44. Jesus tells the pharisees that their father was the devil due to the lies they spoke. Jesus is referring to their false teachings. Jesus called them blind leaders of the blind, that they were to be disregarded. The Apostle Paul called his opposition disguised just like Satan, as an angel of light, therefore his ministers were disguised as ministers of righteousness. Paul repeats Jesus' idea that these false leaders' end would be destruction. Same as the blind leading other blind ones into a ditch. Jesus was corrected and warned by His disciples when they pointed out that His parable was offending the pharisees, Matthew 15:12.

Insults, attacks? Seriously?

No, Sister, if you were facing off with the apostles, John the Baptist, Jesus, and Paul, you may be shocked at what you would hear.

Elijah didn't preach a sweet love message to the prophets of Baal.

The Proverbs still contain Proverbs 18:6.

Hey, you were the one who said God doesn't change.

Romans 16:17 has the apostle urging us to consider carefully those who teach contrary to doctrine. The KJV tells us that they are to be marked, watched carefully.

Personal attacks?

You mean if an Apostolic points out that an ex-Pentecostal is posting here solely to discourage the young, and neophyte, they are being personally attacked?

Sister, it is Apostolic friends forum. FRIENDS not foes.

So, if I went over to a Sedevacantist forum should I expect a foot rub?

Reality is refreshing for those who are brave enough to embrace it.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ILG

I believe that God gives us the power to overcome sin. That doesn't mean we are perfect. For example, that second donut might be gluttony but I think God leaves a little room for human weakness.

What is the Bible definition of perfect?