Submission? Or Power and Control?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ILG

Then men can trim the bottoms and have "short" hair.

Sister, did Jesus speak 17th century English?

What is trim the bottom? What is the bottom, what is trim, what is short? In Revelation 9:8 the locust have hair like women, what is hair like women?

You see the Greek, and Latin is very descriptive. Etymology shows us the origin of words. As Votivesoul pointed out the Greek word used in 1st Corinthians 11:15 is where we get the word comet. Which was known as the star with flowing hair. For it to be shameful for a man to have uncut growing hair it would cause him to step down from his natural position "natural" pointing towards Adam, not Darwin. Sis, you really need to put down the Word Aflame and get honest enough to find the truth. Not protect an agenda motivated position.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ILG

That's what he said. I thought most UPC'ers believed this. I stand corrected.

Hooray!!!

Sister, that is just it.

Now, think about what you just posted?

You have way too much UPCI on the brain, instead of book, chapter, and verse on the mind.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by ILG

The fear of that kept me from looking at this objectively the whole time I was in UPC. When I was able to finally trust that I could look at the answer and that God would help me deal with whatever the truth was, no matter what it cost me, I was then able to finally see past the fear and doctrine that I was taught.

So you were in fear all those years because you didn't cut your hair? It was a major fear, terror, that required divine intervention to help you overcome the terror, the fear, of having long hair?

I mean no disrespect, but doesn't this all sound... waaaay too dramatic?

I can't comprehend people living in fear because they have long hair. What about the brothers? Are there brothers out there, right now, with night sweats, high blood pressure, stressing out, bound by fear and doctrine, because they believe they ought to keep their hair short?

Really?

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

What is the Bible definition of perfect?

It means your sins are covered by the blood of the perfect one. It doesn't mean you leave your hair uncut as a woman or keep from eating too many donuts.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sister, did Jesus speak 17th century English?

What is trim the bottom? What is the bottom, what is trim, what is short? In Revelation 9:8 the locust have hair like women, what is hair like women?

You see the Greek, and Latin is very descriptive. Etymology shows us the origin of words. As Votivesoul pointed out the Greek word used in 1st Corinthians 11:15 is where we get the word comet. Which was known as the star with flowing hair. For it to be shameful for a man to have uncut growing hair it would cause him to step down from his natural position "natural" pointing towards Adam, not Darwin. Sis, you really need to put down the Word Aflame and get honest enough to find the truth. Not protect an agenda motivated position.

According to your definitions, hair is either completely uncut or short. But there happens to be a middle of the road. It would be a shame for a man to have uncut flowing hair but according to your logic, if he trimmed it, it wouldn't be shameful.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Hooray!!!

Sister, that is just it.

Now, think about what you just posted?

You have way too much UPCI on the brain, instead of book, chapter, and verse on the mind.

What I have posted in the original post is a refutation of UPC theology. Are you saying you agree? Does UPC theology=bible theology? Some people think they are one and the same.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So you were in fear all those years because you didn't cut your hair? It was a major fear, terror, that required divine intervention to help you overcome the terror, the fear, of having long hair?

I mean no disrespect, but doesn't this all sound... waaaay too dramatic?

I can't comprehend people living in fear because they have long hair. What about the brothers? Are there brothers out there, right now, with night sweats, high blood pressure, stressing out, bound by fear and doctrine, because they believe they ought to keep their hair short?

Really?

I was in fear because I was taught things like I mention in this book and others. Things like Joy Haney mentions about Jezebel's blood being licked up, things like Ruth Reider mentions like when a woman cut her hair and her home was invaded by spirits. Things like Gary and Linda Reed write about how a girl cut her hair cut and went stark raving mad.

Uncut hair is neither here nor there until you tie in all these crazy fearmongering stories into it.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by ILG

I was in fear because I was taught things like I mention in this book and others. Things like Joy Haney mentions about Jezebel's blood being licked up, things like Ruth Reider mentions like when a woman cut her hair and her home was invaded by spirits. Things like Gary and Linda Reed write about how a girl cut her hair cut and went stark raving mad.

Uncut hair is neither here nor there until you tie in all these crazy fearmongering stories into it.

But it seems as if these fears would only be an issue if you had cut your hair? If you had uncut hair, you would not be subject to those supposed doomed fates you read about, right?

So, is this how it went down: You wanted to cut your hair, but were afraid of what would happen?

Why did you want to cut your hair to begin with?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ILG

It means your sins are covered by the blood of the perfect one. It doesn't mean you leave your hair uncut as a woman or keep from eating too many donuts.

OK, you don't know. The Bible definition of perfect is a Greek word which means "end." Or complete and final, which denotes growth from an infant to a matured elder.

Matthew 5:48 Jesus is telling His followers after a list of guidelines that they are to be perfect just like the Father. Meaning that through their conversion they would be born again as babes in Christ, and grow through the sincere mother's milk of the word. They would develop into mature elders who were now able to eat strong food. Hebrews 5:12 shows us that some Diaspora Judeans who had converted to the Apostolic faith weren't maturing. They are told that they should be at the place of teaching, but they need to be taught. Which meant they were to be nursed again, because they were inexperienced, and not acquainted with the teaching of "righteousness."

Philippians 3:12 is Paul saying what? Paul is talking about obtaining maturity. He is simply following Jesus' teaching of trees, which a good tree cannot produce bad fruit, or a bad tree produce good fruit. 1 Corinthians 3:1 Has Paul addressing Diaspora Judeans and Greeks informing them that he can't deal with them on a spiritual level. Because they were still immature. If a person can't run with footmen, how can they contend with heavy cavalry?

Philippians 3:14-13 Paul is directing the Roman Apostolics that they much press on to maturity in Christ Jesus. Just like 1 Corinthians 11:1 where the apostle tells his church family that they should follow his example as he follows Christ's example. All about coming to a place of maturity where you can now produce good spiritual fruit. The owner of the Garden comes to inspects trees, finds one that produces no fruit, yet, wants to cut it down. The gardener asks the Garden owner to hold off while the gardener treats the tree. Yet, what people fail to take into consideration is that if the tree still doesn't produce fruit, it was promised that it then would be rooted up and burned.

So, please clarify about your correlation concerning hair uncut as a woman or keep from eating too many donuts?

I don't follow where you are going with this?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ILG

According to your definitions, hair is either completely uncut or short. But there happens to be a middle of the road. It would be a shame for a man to have uncut flowing hair but according to your logic, if he trimmed it, it wouldn't be shameful.

What?

Ok, let's try this out.

Why is it disgusting for a man to have continually growing hair.

Yet, when a woman prevents her hair from continually growing it is embarrassing? Why nature? The Greek: φύσις which is translated as nature is talking about order. Everyone from Homer to Plato used the word to describe the creative order.. Aristotle used this word to describe the "process of an acorn growing into an oak tree" The apostle does the same thing when he speaks of the natural order of God, Christ, Adam, and Eve. Continually growing uncut hair on a man was the order being changed. Your idea of what if he trimmed his hair (I would suspect when it grew to the length to touch the soles of his feet), makes no sense, because it isn't about what ifs, or any Ex-UPCers hypothetical.

Revelation 9:8 points out to us locust which have hair like women? This obviously means that there are two opposing symbols one hair as WOMEN and logically hair like men. ILG? Can you tell the rest of us cavemen what is Revelation 9:8 talking about when it uses the symbol "their hair was like women's hair?" Therefore, trimming is your modern way of wresting an ancient manuscript into your modern culture.