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  #291  
Old 08-23-2017, 08:41 AM
JoeBandy JoeBandy is offline
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Re: More On Beards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Everyone has an opinion.

That's all they are, opinions.

The real problem is serpents, those who hide among the sheep. They act just like sheep. Baaa, just like sheep. While in their minds is a flood of porn, hate, resentment, and all manner of wickedness. Shapshifting, knowing all the right Christianisms, Bible quotes, verses, and ecclesiastical wisdom. Never getting it right, or even caring to get it right. They want to discuss how Standards are unbiblical yet within their own lives they are twisted metal. Burning wreackage, strewn with bloody corpses. Imagine, someone wanting to discuss shirt length while their own religious life is flipped out? Oh, but no one can see that. Unless, the person gets caught. Because who you are in the dark is who you are.

We may escape the judgement of men, we won't escape the judgement of God.

Our hearts should break for ourselves.

Sweeping around one's own porch, before we say boo devil boo about standards.

But, sadly it's the people who proclaim they will fast, and pray, who just want to hear those words leave their lips. They want to let everyone know they wear sack cloth and ashes for mankind. Because talk is cheap, and on the internet it's all free. But, people need to feel good about themselves, and that they are correct. Feel, believe, but sadly never actually being there in their private behavior. Just wanting to look the part instead of being a part of the Body.
Very good post!
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  #292  
Old 08-23-2017, 09:29 AM
returnman returnman is offline
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Re: More On Beards

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Originally Posted by JoeBandy View Post
Very good post!
I would have to agree with Evang on the wrecked individuals that verbalize shirt sleeve lengths and other trivial matters while living in a spiritual mess. Churches leave a lot of wreckage along the highway of life, oneness no exceptions. Another way to interpret this outspoken behavior over petty standards would be the cry for help out of the carnage surrounding their life left on the side of the road by some abusive individual that thought it better to cut off the member of the body for the good of the whole.
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  #293  
Old 08-23-2017, 10:49 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: More On Beards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Everyone has an opinion.

That's all they are, opinions.
Yes, everyone has an opinion. But some opinions are valid and others are invalid.

For example, there is absolutely no BIBLICAL prohibition on beards. Therefore, the standard is extra-biblical and is a "commandment of men".

It comes down to what is TRUTH and what isn't. The TRUTH is, there is no BIBLICAL prohibition on beards. The notion is purely a man made construct.

Those with a love for truth must not allow themselves to be satisfied with the subjective logic of "everyone has an opinion" as though every opinion is equally valid. Rubbish. Some opinions are absolutely invalid. And, frankly, until one can clearly show that the Bible condemns facial hair on men, such opinions will remain invalid and evidence of man made religion and commandments of men.

The Jews were all wrapped up in this error, and though mighty highly of themselves and their traditions. However, Jesus says,
Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Even Paul speaks of legalistic commandments of men:
Colossians 2:20-23 King James Version (KJV)
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
Thus, the beard standard as taught in most holiness circles is as unbiblical as the veneration of saints or the Rosary. The prohibition is a human construct.

And those who truly hunger for truth, and know their Bible, can see this clearly. And as more and more people research the issue, the only one's fooled are those wanting to be fooled. And the only one's tolerant of such an unbiblical requirement for ministry or fellowship, are those who stand to gain from it in some manner.

What's true is true. And the truth is, the Bible doesn't condemn beards or facial hair. That's the truth. Either the standard is biblical, or it isn't. I was discussing this with a man years ago, just before leaving the UPCI. I asked him about it plainly, I asked, "Is the standard BIBLICAL?" He answered, "While there isn't anything in the Bible condemning beards, it is our church's position that God expects men to be clean shaven." I said, "So, are you admitting that it is the tradition of your church and that the standard isn't biblical?" He repeated himself a couple times, and ended the conversation. This is about truth. While the man clearly had an opinion and a position, it cannot be said that his opinion or his position was based on Scripture. Therefore, it is merely a tradition of man. And to teach that one's soul is in danger over a beard, or to say that one called and anointed by God shouldn't be allowed to minister is... error.

So, yes. One might have a different "opinion". But their opinion differs from the position of Scripture. Until they cough up chapter and verse illustrating the condemnation of beards, their opinion is INVALID, and is merely a tradition of man.

That being said, any accusation of a "bad attitude or spirit" on the issue cannot be leveled at the one truthfully proclaiming that the Bible holds no prohibition. For such a one is absolutely right. The only ones who can be said to have a bad attitude or spirit on the issue are those being divisive because they are clinging to an unbiblical tradition of man.

Truth shall always triumph.
Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Last edited by Aquila; 08-23-2017 at 11:18 AM.
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  #294  
Old 08-23-2017, 11:46 AM
n david n david is offline
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Re: More On Beards

Does anyone personally know of any UPC church which preaches beards are a sin? I'm unaware of any which preach that having a beard is a sin, as has been claimed here. I personally know a few UPC churches here which allow beards. The UPC church I attend currently does not preach having a beard is a sin.
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  #295  
Old 08-23-2017, 12:48 PM
aegsm76 aegsm76 is offline
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Re: More On Beards

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Originally Posted by n david View Post
Does anyone personally know of any UPC church which preaches beards are a sin? I'm unaware of any which preach that having a beard is a sin, as has been claimed here. I personally know a few UPC churches here which allow beards. The UPC church I attend currently does not preach having a beard is a sin.
As my current pastor says, "There is more Bible for beards, than against them".
However, he also notes that the Bible specifically speaks against shaping the beard.
Which means the Duck Dynasty look is the way to go if you have one.
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  #296  
Old 08-23-2017, 02:38 PM
TakingDominion TakingDominion is offline
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Re: More On Beards

Quote:
Originally Posted by n david View Post
Does anyone personally know of any UPC church which preaches beards are a sin? I'm unaware of any which preach that having a beard is a sin, as has been claimed here. I personally know a few UPC churches here which allow beards. The UPC church I attend currently does not preach having a beard is a sin.
I was preaching for a UPC Pastor in Michigan a few months back and he brought up the issue of facial hair. We were talking about attending district events or camps, and I believe his comment was something along the lines of, "I'm seeing way more facial hair on the platform than I'd like to see".
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  #297  
Old 08-23-2017, 02:50 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: More On Beards

Quote:
Originally Posted by n david View Post
Does anyone personally know of any UPC church which preaches beards are a sin? I'm unaware of any which preach that having a beard is a sin, as has been claimed here. I personally know a few UPC churches here which allow beards. The UPC church I attend currently does not preach having a beard is a sin.
My first pastor taught that it was a sin. After he passed away the next pastor didn't consider beards a "sin", but he doesn't permit men in any servant role of the church if they have facial hair.
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  #298  
Old 08-23-2017, 02:51 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: More On Beards

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Originally Posted by aegsm76 View Post
As my current pastor says, "There is more Bible for beards, than against them".
However, he also notes that the Bible specifically speaks against shaping the beard.
Which means the Duck Dynasty look is the way to go if you have one.
Indeed, if we were under the Law, that is exactly what would be required.
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  #299  
Old 08-23-2017, 02:52 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: More On Beards

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Originally Posted by TakingDominion View Post
I was preaching for a UPC Pastor in Michigan a few months back and he brought up the issue of facial hair. We were talking about attending district events or camps, and I believe his comment was something along the lines of, "I'm seeing way more facial hair on the platform than I'd like to see".
What about what Jesus wants to see?
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  #300  
Old 08-23-2017, 02:53 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: More On Beards

The NT doesn't prohibit a beard, nor does it require a beard. Such stipulations are silly and unbiblical.
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