Historical Accounts & Context for Black Traitors

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Originalist

The first person murdered by John Brown and his "slave liberators" at Harpers Ferry was a black man.

So do you bring this up as an attempt to dilute the ironies of American history or to highlight the ironies of American history?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

So do you bring this up as an attempt to dilute the ironies of American history or to highlight the ironies of American history?

More so the latter. History has many ironies indeed.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I understand, but most people are not glad, proud, etc of the things that happened during that time period.

My ancestors were farmers in Georgia and had lived on their land for centuries (probably).
Soldiers came told them to pack what they could carry and join the rest of the crowd that was getting kicked out.
White men then took over their houses, furnishings and crops.
They then filed a case against this forced resettlement, which went all the way to the Supreme Court and they won.
However, Andy Jackson refused to listen to the court, because the state of Georgia was openly stating they would not honor the court's decision.
But, I have no issue with images or statues of Jackson.
As with most men in US history, he was a very conflicted figure.

Just using this to point out that my ancestors have at least as much to complain and riot about than anyone else's.
But we do not.
Those that do not learn from History are doomed to repeat it.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

It is ignored because it does not have very much to do with the "peculiar institution" of American slavery.

Really?

Muslims never sold slaves to Europeans?
Did you know that Muslims took more slaves out of Africa than Europeans?
Did you know that often the male received a surgical procedure to ensure he could not procreate?
Did you know that there was a significant number that died during the procedure?
Did you know there were uprisings due to the harsh conditions they were forced to live under?

But hey, that's okay. Ignore that to condemn all people of European descent.

FTR I believe the "peculiar institution" was sin and often heinous. It should be discussed and told so future generations are not tempted to repeat that history - regardless of color. The problem with today is that people forget the many Europeans that fought to end the institution. That never gets discussed, only the perpetuation of hate towards all Europeans. Then, the Muslim world is given a pass and it is anathema to mention the heinous acts of Islamic slavery. That is total hypocrisy. Muslims still enslave people today, ask the Yazidis...

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Pliny

Really?

Muslims never sold slaves to Europeans?
Did you know that Muslims took more slaves out of Africa than Europeans?
Did you know that often the male received a surgical procedure to ensure he could not procreate?
Did you know that there was a significant number that died during the procedure?
Did you know there were uprisings due to the harsh conditions they were forced to live under?

But hey, that's okay. Ignore that to condemn all people of European descent.

FTR I believe the "peculiar institution" was sin and often heinous. It should be discussed and told so future generations are not tempted to repeat that history - regardless of color. The problem with today is that people forget the many Europeans that fought to end the institution. That never gets discussed, only the perpetuation of hate towards all Europeans. Then, the Muslim world is given a pass and it is anathema to mention the heinous acts of Islamic slavery. That is total hypocrisy. Muslims still enslave people today, ask the Yazidis...

EDITED SO AS NOT TO OFFEND.

After all these years of posting on here, you still don't know me.

Pliny, Europeans didn't help the good cause.

Americans did.

I know this and have made similar points in the past. It is just that your point doesn't really fit in the context of the conversation because not one participant on this thread has indicted all AMERICANS for participating in slavery.

Well, there may be one person-- but that wasn't really his intent and you should KNOW BY NOW that I don't stand for the foolishness you have described.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

My ancestors were farmers in Georgia and had lived on their land for centuries (probably).
Soldiers came told them to pack what they could carry and join the rest of the crowd that was getting kicked out.
White men then took over their houses, furnishings and crops.
They then filed a case against this forced resettlement, which went all the way to the Supreme Court and they won.
However, Andy Jackson refused to listen to the court, because the state of Georgia was openly stating they would not honor the court's decision.
But, I have no issue with images or statues of Jackson.
As with most men in US history, he was a very conflicted figure.

Just using this to point out that my ancestors have at least as much to complain and riot about than anyone else's.
But we do not.
Those that do not learn from History are doomed to repeat it.

I would agree but if I were a guessing man, I would say that your ancestors were not singled out by local, state, and federal governments with the specific purpose to intimidate, disenfranchise, and even kill.

If I were a guessing man, your ancestors probably didn't suffer such cruel indignities over and over and over again for literally a couple hundred plus years.

So no, I don't agree with you.

But who makes the point you are trying to make anyway-- other than someone who wants to minimize black Americans and all that is connected to our sordid history in this *land that is just as much yours as it is mine? Who questions the lingering affects of our shared American history?

*Your Land and My Land in the general sense.

I don't want to minimize what happened to your ancestors, but in conversations about the Holocaust, I don't bring up America's "peculiar institution" because I would never try to make a point out of who suffered more.

Who does that?

So no, I don't agree with you.

[aegsm76]

JD - precisely!
You have wisely recognized that this is where identity politics gets us!
Trying to make up past problems and injustices to groups of people.
When some of the people in these groups were not even part of the original injustice.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

JD - precisely!
You have wisely recognized that this is where identity politics gets us!
Trying to make up past problems and injustices to groups of people.
When some of the people in these groups were not even part of the original injustice.

But some people refuse to acknowledge the role of our history in our present day situations.

More than slavery, it was the federal government's failure to keep their promises to black Americans and all the other junk that persisted in this country for over 100 years after the Civil War that has a correlation with what is happening today.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

EDITED SO AS NOT TO OFFEND.

After all these years of posting on here, you still don't know me.

Pliny, Europeans didn't help the good cause.

Americans did.

I know this and have made similar points in the past. It is just that your point doesn't really fit in the context of the conversation because not one participant on this thread has indicted all AMERICANS for participating in slavery.

Well, there may be one person-- but that wasn't really his intent and you should KNOW BY NOW that I don't stand for the foolishness you have described.

The "Americans" are considered European by decent - ie white. Also, the "slavery" issue started before the American Revolution - European colonization. In fact, slavery has been part of human practice as far back as written history goes.

William Wilberforce, a European, was a leader in the abolition movement.
Jacques Pierre Brissot was another European that took a stand against slavery.

The idea that Europeans didn't help the good cause is wrong - assuming you mean the "good cause" to be the abolition of slavery.

The men mentioned above and European Americans impacted the abolition movement - thankfully.

You cannot divorce Europeans from the Atlantic slave trade just as you cannot divorce Islam from the Atlantic slave trade. They both had an impact. It was not the Europeans that marched into the African interior to capture slaves. Muslims did. They then sold them to Europeans which took them to other parts of the world. Also, Muslims took far more slaves to the Middle East.

I posted:
"Did you know that Muslims took more slaves out of Africa than Europeans?
Did you know that often the male received a surgical procedure to ensure he could not procreate?
Did you know that there was a significant number that died during the procedure?
Did you know there were uprisings due to the harsh conditions they were forced to live under?

But hey, that's okay. Ignore that to condemn all people of European descent."

The very last part of my post - to condemn all people of European descent is wrong as far as this forum goes. Still, outside of this forum, some seem to indicate this when they, as black leaders, tell white people to:

1. White people, if you don’t have any descendants, will your property to a black or brown family. Preferably one that lives in generational poverty.

2. White people, if you’re inheriting property you intend to sell upon acceptance, give it to a black or brown family. You’re bound to make that money in some other white privileged way.
https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/

This sample demonstrates the hatred of many black people towards those of a fair complexion. Note, the start of the statement - "White people". There is no modifier; therefore, it encompasses ALL white people. I am sick and tired of black leaders spewing forth their venom towards "white people" because of something that happened long before I was born. Then, in their overt hypocrisy ignore the other parts of that equation:
White people fought to end the institution.
Muslims are given a pass even though they were just as guilty if not more so.

These same black leaders propagate lies - "hands up don't shoot" - and ignore the facts. They defend the indefensible and ignore the outrages of black on white crime. One example, a black man targets "white people" and murders three white men. Not one single peep from a black leader and ignored by the media.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...418-story.html

I am sick of the black leaders that hate me because there is some European ancestry in my DNA. They have no credibility and are fascists. When I read or hear about the stupidity of a black leader that calls for "white people" to give up inheritance money and give it to black people - I think those leaders simply reveal their lunacy and hatred. They have become narcissistic jerks. The black community has no credibility complaining about anything until they look past themselves.

If it is wrong for a police officer to shoot a black man then it is wrong for a police officer to shoot a white man.
If it is wrong for a white man to use the word nigger then it is wrong for a black man to use that word.
If it is wrong for a gang of white men to beat up a black man then it is wrong for a gang of black men to beat up a white man.

These are all equally wrong. What is good for me is good for you and what is good for you is good for me. We must look beyond race and see that we are all brothers descended from a common mother and father. However, many black leaders are racists and justify their racism any way they can. I for one am sick of it. They have no credibility and I will tell them so.

To the lady that thinks I should give everything I own to black people - she is cordially invited to take a long walk off a short pier.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

But some people refuse to acknowledge the role of our history in our present day situations.

Like the role the North's victory played in stripping the center of power from the states to Washington, the very thing the Founders did NOT want. And don't tell me that had to happen for blacks to be protected. It was unconstitutional and the north did what they did not for blacks, but to seize total control. This injustice needs to recognized

More than slavery, it was the federal government's failure to keep their promises to black Americans and all the other junk that persisted in this country for over 100 years after the Civil War that has a correlation with what is happening today.

They never intended on doing that , Jermyn (keeping their promise). The plan was to completely disenfranchise white southerners , install freed slaves and carpetbaggers as a "civilian" puppet regime, for as long as possible. They knew that the northern populace would eventually grow weary of this and come to the aid of southern whites, restoring them to political power in the south. But man, those were 12 good years of raping, stealing and pillaging by the Union! But all good things had to come to and end and the freed slaves were dropped like a hot potato and left to languish. Meanwhile, (and sadly) shortsighted white southerners used their re-enfranchisement to punish blacks for aiding their oppressors for 12 years. That is a sad legacy that none of us are proud of. But when you do that to the majority, they in turn rise up and do the same to the minority. Now if you are of the opinion that white southerners deserved whatever they got, even if it violated the Constitution, then nothing I wrote will matter to you.