He has it all figured out! Thank God for Google!

[Sean]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

Nope. I'm not Jesus. Besides, that's up to your heart's condition, not mine.

C'mon TK, I would be a futurist's worse nightmare and your front man if you answer my questions and prove these verses were not addressing you and I.

Why deflect?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Sean

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.


Me!

John was written to ME!

And I am very glad!

[Sean]

John was written to "them", and preterists are very sad.

[Sean]

37 And what I say unto you(them) I say unto all(me), Watch.


Exactly.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Sean

TK, if you prove to me that these 2 verse of these 2 gospels were not written or spoken to me and you, then I will be a preterist.

C'mon, What do you have to lose?

Ok, here you go.

In context, the audience that heard Jesus speak the words in Mark 13:37, would be those to whom it was spoken. We find the identity of this audience here:

Mark 13:3-5
3....And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
4....Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?
5....And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:

So, the ones to whom it was said was Peter, James, John, and Andrew. Since its message is specific to the men mentioned, then the "I say unto all" would be to the people (all) that would be alive during the time of Peter, James, John, and Andrew. That's book, chapter, and verse.

Again, that does not mean future believers cannot glean from what is said there. But unless you believe Peter, James, John, and Andrew is still alive awaiting Mark 13's fulfillment, then this was To them, not us.


Concerning John 20, we see the audience to whom Jesus addressed His remarks is the following:

John 20:26....And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

So, the audience included Thomas and the other Apostles and a number of disciples. Again, that is book, chapter, and verse.

Now you asked about John 20:30. To keep it in context, let's add its accompanying scripture.

John 20:30-31
30....And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31....But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reason I asked why John 20:30-31 is worded as it is, is because it is one area where the Apostle John added his commentary. Another area is found in the very next chapter of John. If you pay attention, you'll see it is worded very similarly to John 20:30.

John 21:25....And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Now, I'm guessing you do not believe there will be so many books written in the future about "many other things" Jesus did that the earth will not be able to contain them. So, we can safely say this was not written TO us (future fulfillment), but FOR us (in the past for later gleaning).

So, to answer your John 20 question: I see John 20 as a great example of what I said to you about how the Bible is "not written TO us but FOR us." Why I say this is because John 20:26 was written TO those specific disciples. That's what the Bible says. But the commentary in John 20:30-31 was written FOR the biblical growth of those who would later read it.

[mfblume]

Hey Sean, was this written TO and FOR us?

Genesis 6:14 KJV Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.

(Watch the lack of a direct answer).

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

C'mon TK, I would be a futurist's worse nightmare and your front man if you answer my questions and prove these verses were not addressing you and I.

Why deflect?

No no no no . Do not become a preterist. the posts you write as a futurist are embarrassing to futurists. STAAAAY futurist, you are helping our cause so much.

[Amanah]

Can't Revelation also written to the early church but also for us?

As there is only one kingdom, but a future greater fulfillment/continuous fulfillment now, see below:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I believe there is only one kingdom. And this kingdom will fully manifest in the future more gloriously than it is now. But there will never be a physical kingdom, since Jesus said His Kingdom is not something to which you will ever be able to point and say, "There it is."

Since it is speaking of the full manifestation of the kingdom we are already in now, that's what 2 Tim 4:1 means.

Jesus' words absolutely discount the possibility of a physical kingdom.

Luke 17:20-21 KJV And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: (21) Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Could there not also be a partial fulfillment of Revelation in 70 AD, and also a future fulfillment, such as expressed by John Gill:

Originally Posted by Amanah

Revelation 22:10-15 John must not "seal" his prophecy as Daniel did his (Daniel 12:4-9). Unlike Daniel's prophecy, the fulfillment of John's visions was "near" to his first-century readers. It remains near today.

--------------------

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book; as the orders are, when things are intended not to be published, but concealed, at least as yet, because of the distance of the accomplishment of them, which was not the case here; see Revelation 10:4. Christ would have the things John saw and heard, written, and made public, sent in an open book, unsealed, to the churches, that they might be seen and read of all; that so the afflictions and persecutions of the people of God, both under Rome Pagan, and Rome Papal, might be known, and the saints not be offended at them when they came, but be prepared for them, to endure them patiently; and that they might be apprised of the errors and heresies that were to spring up, and of the appearance and wickedness of the man of sin, and his followers, and beware of them; and that they might have some assurance of the destruction of antichrist, and of the glorious state of the church, both in the spiritual and personal reign of Christ, and so be comforted in the midst of their tribulations, and rejoice in the faith and hope of these things. We may learn from hence, that the Scriptures in general are not to be locked up, and concealed from the common people, but lie open, and are to be read by all; and in particular, that this book is not so dark and obscure as it is thought to be:
for the time is at hand; when the things in this book shall begin to be fulfilled; see Revelation 1:1.

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/revelation/22-10.htm

[Sean]

So, the ones to whom it was said was Peter, James, John, and Andrew. Since its message is specific to the men mentioned, then the "I say unto all" would be to the people (all) that would be alive during the time of Peter, James, John, and Andrew. That's book, chapter, and verse.

Again, that does not mean future believers cannot glean from what is said there. But unless you believe Peter, James, John, and Andrew is still alive awaiting Mark 13's fulfillment, then this was To them, not us.

So all excludes us?

Where in the verse does this exclusion exist?...


37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.


Did Jesus mean all 4 of you?

If so, why this....


I say unto you...


Then this.....


I say unto all


Are these the same folks 4 being addressed and Jesus calls them "all"?



Or, did "all" include everyone hearing or reading the scripture about what he said?

[Sean]

Are you saying that Jesus was never involved in personally speaking to the next 1900 years of believers, but just them?