Told you so

[houston]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So America just needs more of what it's been getting for the last 100 years... just "moar"?

It's a marketing problem?

Honestly, don’t know what trip you’re on today.

Just spit it out...

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Esaias

And if their eyes will NOT be opened? What then?

That is not our problem. And we certainly don't get to say who will be or remain lost at the end. Many former friends thought I would be lost forever and were surprised to find that I was a Christian.

We had the Pentecostal Revival, more apostolic churches in this country than ever before, more " churches" than ever before, and yet western civilization is gasping its last dying breath, more sin and immorality in this nation than ever before...

Old time Protestant "mainline" denominations practically ruled in America for almost 200 years, and society was a Garden Paradise of Holiness compared to the sewer we've become, despite the fact that "now we've got the Real Deal™ with the Power™". We've had 100 years of Apostolic Revival and people in society don't even know which bathroom to use anymore.

Funny how that worked out.

Were you planning on checking in your Bible?

Funny how I continue to read and believe:

Matthew 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

God predicted victory for the church from the very beginning. He will come back for a glorious church. Ephesians 5:27 "That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

The "gates of hell" have just that - "gates". That is not an offensive position. It is a defensive position. The enemy wants us to feel like the victim, which you have portrayed in your post. However, the church plays offense, if they can understand that, and because of that position - we will win.

Matthew 16:19 – “ I will give you the keys (authority) of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind [forbid, declare to be improper and unlawful] on earth [a]will have [already] been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose [permit, declare lawful] on earth [b]will have [already] been loosed in heaven.” (Amplified)

The first thing we can "loose" is His name - Jesus. Hallowed be thy name.

Participating with God in prayer, because it is already His will, we have the authority to say - Father, I loose the power of God, the Word of God, the Spirit of God, and the name of Jesus to be manifest in this world, to the point that the name of Jesus will be recognized among all of this earth as being above every name.

“Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.” Matthew 6:10

Jesus said, "When I cast out devils, by the Spirit of God, then the Kingdom of God has come unto you”. When I pray this, I am loosing the manifestation of the Spirit of God on the earth that He would take dominion and authority over the powers of darkness in the earth, that He would loose the lost of their blindness in their hearts and minds and loose the faith of the people of God to manifest the power and authority of God In this earth.

Unless God says it is over, it is not over. We have things to say and do. No time to be negative about it all.

[Esaias]

Victory for the church does not necessarily equate to victory for any particular society.

I'm not arguing, necessarily, just trying to point out we've been doing things a certain way for a long time, and are having worse results than previous efforts by people with "far less Truth™" than we have, and wondering why.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

That is not our problem. And we certainly don't get to say who will be or remain lost at the end. Many former friends thought I would be lost forever and were surprised to find that I was a Christian.


Were you planning on checking in your Bible?

Funny how I continue to read and believe:

Matthew 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

God predicted victory for the church from the very beginning. He will come back for a glorious church. Ephesians 5:27 "That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

The "gates of hell" have just that - "gates". That is not an offensive position. It is a defensive position. The enemy wants us to feel like the victim, which you have portrayed in your post. However, the church plays offense, if they can understand that, and because of that position - we will win.

Matthew 16:19 – “ I will give you the keys (authority) of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind [forbid, declare to be improper and unlawful] on earth [a]will have [already] been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose [permit, declare lawful] on earth [b]will have [already] been loosed in heaven.” (Amplified)

The first thing we can "loose" is His name - Jesus. Hallowed be thy name.

Participating with God in prayer, because it is already His will, we have the authority to say - Father, I loose the power of God, the Word of God, the Spirit of God, and the name of Jesus to be manifest in this world, to the point that the name of Jesus will be recognized among all of this earth as being above every name.

“Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.” Matthew 6:10

Jesus said, "When I cast out devils, by the Spirit of God, then the Kingdom of God has come unto you”. When I pray this, I am loosing the manifestation of the Spirit of God on the earth that He would take dominion and authority over the powers of darkness in the earth, that He would loose the lost of their blindness in their hearts and minds and loose the faith of the people of God to manifest the power and authority of God In this earth.

Unless God says it is over, it is not over. We have things to say and do. No time to be negative about it all.

I recommend the following article:

http://www.gloriouschurch.com/pdf/Tr...nd-Loosing.pdf

It was written by Jason Dulle.

The "loosing" so commonly understood today in the Pentecostal movement, is not the kind of "loosing" Jesus had in mind in Matthew 16:19. It's not like loosing an animal from a yoke, or cage, or setting a prisoner free from bonds (although it can refer to such things in different contexts).

Rather, it's more in line with dissolving a relationship, ending an obligation, or denying a set of circumstances, particularly tied, in Matthew 16:19, to the Kingdom of God, and who can and who cannot enter it, per the revelation Simon Bar-Jonah was given by the Father.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Victory for the church does not necessarily equate to victory for any particular society.

I'm not arguing, necessarily, just trying to point out we've been doing things a certain way for a long time, and are having worse results than previous efforts by people with "far less Truth™" than we have, and wondering why.

We have to remain faithful through all the times - good and bad.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I recommend the following article:

http://www.gloriouschurch.com/pdf/Tr...nd-Loosing.pdf

It was written by Jason Dulle.

The "loosing" so commonly understood today in the Pentecostal movement, is not the kind of "loosing" Jesus had in mind in Matthew 16:19. It's not like loosing an animal from a yoke, or cage, or setting a prisoner free from bonds (although it can refer to such things in different contexts).

Rather, it's more in line with dissolving a relationship, ending an obligation, or denying a set of circumstances, particularly tied, in Matthew 16:19, to the Kingdom of God, and who can and who cannot enter it, per the revelation Simon Bar-Jonah was given by the Father.

Notice that I quoted the Amplified, which is in agreement with Jason Dulle. I fully agree and never supposed anything else, as my post very well reflects that position.

Conclusion
The authority of the church is not to decide what to do and then have God back up their decision. The authority of the church is to carry out the will and decisions of God upon earth as they have been established in heaven. This is in perfect accord with the way Jesus instructed us to pray: “Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven” (Matthew 6:10).
http://www.gloriouschurch.com/pdf/Tr...nd-Loosing.pdf

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Matthew 16:19 –[B] “ I will give you the keys (authority) of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind [forbid, declare to be improper and unlawful] on earth [a]will have [already] been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose [permit, declare lawful] on earth will have [already] been loosed in heaven.” (Amplified)

The first thing we can "loose" is His name - Jesus. "Hallowed be thy name".

Participating with God in prayer, because it is already His will, we have the authority to say - Father, I loose the power of God, the Word of God, the Spirit of God, and the name of Jesus to be manifest in this world, to the point that the name of Jesus will be recognized among all of this earth as being above every name.

[mfblume]

I agree, Votive Soul. So much is taken out of context due to neglect of the custom and manner of speaking of the day in scripture. They're half a world away and two thousand year ago. They would not mean what our culture thinks them to mean in very many cases.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I agree, Votive Soul. So much is taken out of context due to neglect of the custom and manner of speaking of the day in scripture. They're half a world away and two thousand year ago. They would not mean what our culture thinks them to mean in very many cases.

Thought this was interesting by Adam Clarke:

That binding and loosing were terms in frequent use among the Jews, and that they meant bidding and forbidding, granting and refusing, declaring lawful or unlawful, etc., Dr. Lightfoot, after having given numerous instances, thus concludes: -

“To these may be added, if need were, the frequent (shall I say?) or infinite use of the phrases, אסור ומותר bound and loosed, which we meet with thousands of times over. But from these allegations the reader sees, abundantly enough, both the frequency and the common use of this phrase, and the sense of it also; namely, first, that it is used in doctrine, and in judgments, concerning things allowed or not allowed in the law. Secondly, that to bind is the same with, to forbid, or to declare forbidden. To think that Christ, when he used the common phrase, was not understood by his hearers in the common and vulgar sense, shall I call it a matter of laughter, or of madness?

To this, therefore, do these words amount: When the time was come wherein the Mosaic law, as to some part of it, was to be abolished, and left off, and, as to another part of it, was to be continued and to last for ever, he granted Peter here, and to the rest of the apostles, Mat_18:18, a power to abolish or confirm what they thought good, and as they thought good; being taught this, and led by the Holy Spirit: as if he should say, Whatsoever ye shall bind in the law of Moses, that is, forbid, it shall be forbidden, the Divine authority confirming it; and whatsoever ye shall loose, that is, permit, or shall teach that it is permitted and lawful, shall be lawful and permitted. Hence they bound, that is forbade, circumcision to the believers; eating of things offered to idols, of things strangled, and of blood, for a time, to the Gentiles; and that which they bound on earth was confirmed in heaven. They loosed, that is, allowed purification to Paul, and to four other brethren, for the shunning of scandal; Act_21:24 and, in a word, by these words of Christ it was committed to them, the Holy Spirit directing, that they should make decrees concerning religion, as to the use or rejection of Mosaic rites and judgments, and that either for a time, or for ever.

“Let the words be applied by way of paraphrase to the matter that was transacted at present with Peter: ‘I am about to build a Gentile Church,’ saith Christ, and to thee, O Peter, do I give the keys of the kingdom of heaven, that thou mayest first open the door of faith to them; but if thou askest by what rule that Church is to be governed, when the Mosaic rule may seem so improper for it, thou shalt be so guided by the Holy Spirit, that whatsoever of the law of Moses thou shalt forbid them shall be forbidden; whatsoever thou grantest them shall be granted; and that under a sanction made in heaven.’ Hence, in that instant, when he should use his keys, that is, when he was now ready to open the gate of the Gospel to the Gentiles, Acts 10, he was taught from heaven that the consorting of the Jew with the Gentile, which before had been bound, was now loosed; and the eating of any creature convenient for food was now loosed, which before had been bound; and he in like manner looses both these.

“Those words of our Savior, Joh_20:23, Whose sins ye remit, they are remitted to them, for the most part are forced to the same sense with these before us, when they carry quite another sense. Here the business is of doctrine only, not of persons; there of persons, not of doctrine. Here of things lawful or unlawful in religion, to be determined by the apostles; there of persons obstinate or not obstinate, to be punished by them, or not to be punished.

“As to doctrine, the apostles were doubly instructed. 1. So long sitting at the feet of their Master, they had imbibed the evangelical doctrine.

“2. The Holy Spirit directing them, they were to determine concerning the legal doctrine and practice, being completely instructed and enabled in both by the Holy Spirit descending upon them. As to the persons, they were endowed with a peculiar gift, so that, the same Spirit directing them, if they would retain and punish the sins of any, a power was delivered into their hands of delivering to Satan, of punishing with diseases, plagues, yea, death itself, which Peter did to Ananias and Sapphira; Paul to Elymas, Hymeneus, and Philetus, etc.”

[Esaias]

ALL AUTHORITY in Heaven AND EARTH belongs to Jesus Christ. "Loosing the authority of His Name" would involve:

The recognition by the church that Christ's words are more authoritative than the Supreme Court, local, state, or federal laws, or even the Constitution.

The proclamation of this fact to all the world, every creature, and the powers and principalities (governing authorities).

The obedience to God's Word by the church in everything, regardless of supposed "laws" to the contrary.

The preaching of the present reign of Christ - that Christ is sovereign and His Word is law, and that all mankind, including all public officials, must submit to Him in all things, including the execution of their duties.

The excommunication from the church of any who refuse to recognize the Absolute Sovereignty of Christ, so that all those who preach the lie of political polytheism will be expunged unless they repent.

The teaching of our children that God RULES, so as to raise future generations of devout believers with a clear theonomic foundation, which will help ensure a body politic that filters all its decisions through the lens of the Bible.

Or, we can just mouth the words during prayer and not actually act on our confessions of faith, and continue to retreat until we eventually die off...

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Esaias

ALL AUTHORITY in Heaven AND EARTH belongs to Jesus Christ. "Loosing the authority of His Name" would involve:

The recognition by the church that Christ's words are more authoritative than the Supreme Court, local, state, or federal laws, or even the Constitution.

The proclamation of this fact to all the world, every creature, and the powers and principalities (governing authorities).

The obedience to God's Word by the church in everything, regardless of supposed "laws" to the contrary.

The preaching of the present reign of Christ - that Christ is sovereign and His Word is law, and that all mankind, including all public officials, must submit to Him in all things, including the execution of their duties.

The excommunication from the church of any who refuse to recognize the Absolute Sovereignty of Christ, so that all those who preach the lie of political polytheism will be expunged unless they repent.

The teaching of our children that God RULES, so as to raise future generations of devout believers with a clear theonomic foundation, which will help ensure a body politic that filters all its decisions through the lens of the Bible.

Or, we can just mouth the words during prayer and not actually act on our confessions of faith, and continue to retreat until we eventually die off...

Fortunately, God doesn't need a majority to show His power.