Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by n david

What's sad are those who add to the Bible and include things which aren't salvific as though they are. They d amn and condemn good and righteous men and women as heretics simply because they believe something different than them.

Bro. T F Tenney wrote a book and uses the phrase, "the main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing."

It's not about moral relativism, it's not about being lazy and doing the minimum - what a joke those accusations are. We don't earn salvation, thus there's no "minimum" as you derisively claim.

It's about recognizing the important issues and not getting tangled up in things which aren't. I'm not going to get all huffy and puffy and bitter with anyone over when I believe the end will happen. I believe it will happen. That's what matters. Judgment will come. Christ will return. It will happen. That's the part which matters.

A heretic would be the one who claims it won't happen.

Arguing over the when does not matter.

Your claim of people being heretics over pre, mid beliefs is as dumb as those who preach a man will split hell open and are damned for wearing a short-sleeved or colored shirt.

Nobody is getting "bitter". But I have already proven the case with Scripture, whereas you have simply given your personal opinion.

To the readers: There is no Scripture which declares "Oneness and Acts 2:38 are the only "essential" doctrines, all else is optional."

[n david]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Nobody is getting "bitter". But I have already proven the case with Scripture, whereas you have simply given your personal opinion.

No, you've posted your opinion mixed with what you believe certain scriptures are saying and reposted certain posts over and over again. You've used colors in text, put text in bold and made text larger.

You have not proven that a person who believes in pre or mid is going to hell or is a heretic. That is your personal, made up belief.

[Michael The Disciple]

To the readers: There is no Scripture which declares "Oneness and Acts 2:38 are the only "essential" doctrines, all else is optional."

What a powerful truth.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

His NAME is Jesus!



Beloved, in essence you are saying that nothing more has been fulfilled since
the year 96 AD!

Brother Villa

Here is what Rev. was about.

It was written about 96ad(ish).

It was directly speaking to "The Churches".(the Spirit saith to the Churches).

We are still "The Churches", waiting for it's fulfillment.

[Bowas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

What if the book of Revelation is so dynamic it speaks to the fall of Jerusalem, Christian history, and the future apocalypse... all at the same time? What if in some way, there is truth to every position?

Originally Posted by Amanah

that would be historicism

Preterism and Futurism by definition exclude each other.

And, (in my opinion) that would be trying to cling to what we have been taught, while realizing what we have been taught has errors.

[Michael The Disciple]

YET you worship at the altar of Misty Edwards and Mike Bickel's IHOP - Trinitarians who engage in and promote new age and occult practices.

Typical. When theres nothing to prove the pre trib doctrine and we get down to saying the Apostles words are not important...theres nothing left but personal attack.

I worship at Mistys altar? I didnt know she had one. Perhaps thats the difference between us. I love truth whoever has it. IHOP teaches the post trib rapture. They teach the baptism of the Spirit and have a great worship. IHOP has a great outreach that I truly appreciate. Their vision is far more interesting to me than any "Apostolic" Churches I have seen so far or heard of.

And having said those things if in the end IHOP'S works are not perfect will they enter Heaven? No.

But I see Apostolics the same way. They have some good foundation truth....more than IHOP. And yet if THEIR works are not perfect will they enter Heaven? No.

I worship only Jesus.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Typical. When theres nothing to prove the pre trib doctrine and we get down to saying the Apostles words are not important...theres nothing left but personal attack.

Your own statements are attacks against anyone who doesn't agree with you. Don't complain about my pointing out your hypocrisy. If you want to d amn and condemn to hell a oneness, born again, new birth experience believer while at the same time promote and be friendly with trinitarians who do not believe that either baptism or the HG is needed for salvation, don't be upset over me calling that out.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I worship at Mistys altar? I didnt know she had one. Perhaps thats the difference between us. I love truth whoever has it. IHOP teaches the post trib rapture. They teach the baptism of the Spirit and have a great worship. IHOP has a great outreach that I truly appreciate. Their vision is far more interesting to me than any "Apostolic" Churches I have seen so far or heard of.

IHOP's statement of faith says baptism isn't needed for salvation. They do not believe in the new birth experience or receiving the HG as being part of the new birth. They are in false doctrine. I have documented in the past the new age junk they promote with meditation and contemplative prayer. I've documented the Catholic mystics they've followed and used in their teaching.

Great outreach means nothing when it's leading people to hell through their false doctrine.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by n david

IHOP ... are in false doctrine. I have documented in the past the new age junk they promote with meditation and contemplative prayer. I've documented the Catholic mystics they've followed and used in their teaching.

Great outreach means nothing when it's leading people to hell through their false doctrine.

But haven't they just taken these "new age/catholic" practices and repurposed them for the glory of Jesus? Are you saying that doing pagan things in the name of Jesus will lead people to hell? Or is all that stuff okay as long as we get Acts 2:38 right?

Oh, wait a minute... sorry! Wrong thread!

[thephnxman]

His NAME is Jesus!

Originally Posted by Sean

Here is what Rev. was about.
It was written about 96ad(ish).
It was directly speaking to "The Churches".(the Spirit saith to the Churches).
We are still "The Churches", waiting for it's fulfillment.

Do you believe that the word directed to each church was given at different
times/intervals?
What about the fulfillment of each word/admonishment: do you believe the
word to each church will be fulfilled at different intervals, or all at once/together?
Is it possible that each word was given at different intervals, but will actually
be fulfilled at the same time?
Is it possible that the word spoken to the church(es) were meant not
only to the whole congregation, but also speaks to us individually? If it also
speaks to us as individuals, then some prophecies could be partially fulfilled,
don't you think?

Brother Villa

[Sean]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

His NAME is Jesus!



Do you believe that the word directed to each church was given at different
times/intervals?


No


What about the fulfillment of each word/admonishment: do you believe the
word to each church will be fulfilled at different intervals, or all at once/together?

All at once. There are churches that fit the description of the 7 churches as we speak. Most churches fit in one or more of these scenarios.


Is it possible that each word was given at different intervals, but will actually
be fulfilled at the same time?

I dont think so. John did not have forever to write and get it distributed.


Is it possible that the word spoken to the church(es) were meant not
only to the whole congregation, but also speaks to us individually? If it also
speaks to us as individuals, then some prophecies could be partially fulfilled,
don't you think?

He says multiple times to the 7 churches(individually to each one)

11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;

Which includes all the writings to individual believers.

Brother Villa

I think that when Jesus said, concerning Ephesus.....11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.


He means every believer of the Church Age.