Apostoic worship??

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Maybe you haven't argued for everything noted. But you've argued for some of it. The other things are contributions I've pulled from others as they brow beat Michael over liking music from a church that was deemed to be too "charismatic" or something.

I think some throw the occult accusation around far too much for it to have any serious weight. But based on your post above, now we can add the following to the list:

1.) No "feelz". Feelz are dangerous. (Do "feelz" mean "feelings"?)
2.) No seeking to feel centered. Being centered in prayer is dangerous.
3.) No contemplation regarding God or the truths of the Bible. Contemplation is dangerous.
4.) No candles. Candles are dangerous.
5.) No incense. Incense is dangerous.

Got it.

Do you have an honest bone in your body? That's not at all what I said.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Do you have an honest bone in your body? That's not at all what I said.

So, all those things are okay?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

So, all those things are okay?

You must be hysterical to argue with in person.

[n david]

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Based on what I'm reading on this thread... the New Apostolic Pentecostalism you guys are advocating for should meet the following criteria:

1.) One must have no emotion or emotional response to music, prayer, or impressions from the Spirit. Emotion is dangerous.
2.) Question all impressions from the Holy Spirit that result from any state of worship or study of Scripture. Impressions and leadings are dangerous.
3.) Don't contemplate Scriptural truths, the divine names, or specific words or concepts of Scripture, and definitely don't speak them out loud. Contemplation is dangerous.
4.) Don't breathe or relax during prayer. Using breathing techniques to relax is dangerous.
5.) Never use music as a tool to bring mind and spirit into harmony. Music is dangerous.
6.) Experiencing and enjoying the presence of God is strongly discouraged. Experiencing God is dangerous.
7.) There is no benefit in experiencing the presence of God. Benefiting from God's presence is dangerous.
8.) There is no benefit for experiencing the presence of God because we're not to experience anything. Experiences are dangerous.
9.) There is no power to be received or utilized through the Holy Spirit. Believing in such authority and power is dangerous.
10.) Any music outside of that written and performed by Apostolics who conform to these expectations is to be rejected. Non-Apostolic music is dangerous.
11.) Anything anyone does outside of this paradigm makes them a witch.
12.) Dancing, exuberant, emotion filled worship is silly and charismatic. Dancing, exuberance, and emotion filled worship is dangerous.

Essentially, the above is what I'm gathering here. I've been a born again Pentecostal for over 25 years. I can honestly say that there has never been a more anti-Apostolic Pentecostal position than the above. Yet those who would disagree are castigated as being the "witches".

You obviously either can't read plain English, or you have an agenda.

[Evang.Benincasa]

[Esaias]

Once again:

Originally Posted by Esaias

1. Worship is not limited to music, or how we "feel" in response to music.

2. Worship is judged, by Jesus Christ, according to DOCTRINE, and not according to how we "feel".

I never said a heretic couldn't write a good song. Nor did I say a heretic couldn't write a good song that could be used by God's church as part of its worship. All things are ours, according to the apostle. Therefore, the church can make use of whatever is available, assuming the thing made use of is not in itself heretical, false, or evil, and assuming it would not be inexpedient or a stumbling block to others.

What I take issue with is the idea that heretics have a corner on the worship market. One can only think that if they have a grossly unbiblical view of what actual worship is.

So, just to be clear, to avoid any possibility of misunderstanding, here it is again:

The Bible does not describe worship as a euphoria brought about by The Most Awesomest Music Ever™. The apostles never taught that we must strive to create the Most Awesomest Worship Experiences through the use of Super Awesome Music. The Bible does not define worship in terms of how we feel, it does not grade or measure worship by musical terms or qualities, nor by merely emotional states and feelings, nor does it suggest that worship = music to begin with.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Since the 1990s there has been an increased focus on mysticism within various segments of Christianity. Bordering on the esoteric, these mystical experiences broaden the division between a "factual faith" and a "felt faith," and threaten to replace sound biblical teaching with emotion-driven response. Soaking prayer is one such mystical activity. It is described as resting in God's presence. This is accomplished by playing some gentle worship songs, either sitting or lying down, and praying short, simple prayers for an extended period of time, but otherwise keeping your mind free of other thoughts. At the point when you sense God's presence through some type of manifestation like tingling skin, a sensation of heat or cold, or even a gentle wind seemingly blowing through your body, you are to just "soak" in that presence.

Although that might sound a little strange to some, it does not immediately come across as being necessarily bad. However, the rule by which we measure our experiences in life is the Bible (2 Timothy 3:16-17), and when soaking prayer is examined accordingly, we find that it comes up wanting for biblical support. Nowhere in the Bible can a model of prayer be found that soaking prayer follows.

Prayer in its simplest form in the Bible is calling on the name of the Lord (Genesis 4:26), and in each instance where it is found in Scripture, it is descriptive of communicating with God. Soaking prayer starts that way, but quickly devolves into a trance-like meditative state. This is when soaking prayer ceases to be biblical and becomes more like a New Age practice or something an adherent of Hinduism would participate in.

There is no denying that experiencing the presence of God can be powerful and life changing. It is not the goal of soaking prayer that is biblically errant; it is its methodology. Soaking prayer focuses on obtaining a spiritual experience by seeking out the presence of God through mystical exercises. In this it is similar to ”contemplative prayer” and contemplative spirituality, which are equally unbiblical. Biblical prayer is talking to God with His will in mind (1 John 5:14). A biblically praying believer already understands that God's presence is always with him (Psalm 139:7; Matthew 28:20; 1 Corinthians 6:19; 1 Thessalonians 4:8; 2 Timothy 1:14), and he doesn’t need to experience any type of physical sensation to prove it.

https://www.gotquestions.org/soaking-prayer.html

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You must be hysterical to argue with in person.

I can be. You guys miss over half of it because you can't see my non-verbals. lol

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I can be. You guys miss over half of it because you can't see my non-verbals. lol

I am so thankful we can't see your non verbals.