By embracing Trinitarianism and rejecting Oneness? If indeed thats what has happened.
90% of members of both camps do not consciously embrace one and reject the other. Most people in either camp who come to an altar of repentance and receive the Spirit are not thinking in doctrinal terms, they are simply trying to respond to the conviction they feel.
90% of members of both camps do not consciously embrace one and reject the other. Most people in either camp who come to an altar of repentance and receive the Spirit are not thinking in doctrinal terms, they are simply trying to respond to the conviction they feel.
You named this thread that the Eastern Orthodox Church was a cult. I saw where you changed that due to issues concerning definitions. Yet, you believe that Hank made the wrong choice and that his now denomination is error. I agree it is error. But receiving the Spirit through repentance, how long can a neophyte (i due believe that is what you are taking about) can remain in false doctrine and still be in right standing with God? We are told to grow to maturity, so the neophyte comes to conversion baptism in Jesus name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues. Yet, they are to mature, not to remain children. Having some warm spot in one's heart for Trinitarians and saying that they will be saved in their practice and performance is turning a blind eye? Love means you protect your brother and sister by telling them the truth. the disciples were told to teach, preach, and baptize. What Charismatic/Pentecostal movements do is preach sometimes baptize, and the preacher becomes a life coach. People remain Biblically ignorant of the Bible and end up believing all sorts of lunacy. Guys like the Bible answer man, looks over the fence at that crazy unBiblical stuff and say "no thanks." i understand birth, but even in the physical, you don't leave a new born premature baby on the floor. Then expecting them to live.
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
Last edited by Evang.Benincasa; 02-12-2018 at 04:24 AM.
Listen, there is a huge difference between navygoat1998 and Hank Hanergraff.
Hannergraf is a hater, who believes that speaking in tongues and Jesus name baptism is damnable heresies. He would debate you in a New York minute to prove his ideologies. Matthew 12:30 has everything to do with blaspheming the Holy Ghost. Are you telling navygoat1998 that he is indeed a blasphemer? He doesn't believe that speaking in tongues is of the devil, or that healings are of the devil. He doesn't attribute the works of the Holy Ghost to the devil.
Might as well join Hank who is dying of Cancer in his delusion? We can't broad brush every situation. People leave our movement for a plethora of reasons. Doctrinal? Sure, but emotional, yes, but largely because their good questions are never answered. Most of the religious world grows up in an Ecclesiastical Oz. Where a Religiously so called doctrinal Emerald City has an all knowing and unquestionable leader. Within the city questions are answered according to how the inhabitants of Oz already believe. If the inhabitants are KJV Onlyists and you come along asking a question if Matthew 28:19 is spurious, you might just have the great and powerful OZ put on a fiery and horrific light show. All to give you a resounding NO! That's when the flying monkeys come to finish the job. They use to look like loving caring friends, brothers and sisters. But now, since you have walked out of the great and powerful OZ's office with head hung low, they slowly but surely turn into bat winged primates at the ready. To either turn you into a compliant Matthew 28:19er in its original form, or for two of them to scoop you under each arm to whisk you and your dog Toto to the Island of Lost Toys. While on the island you find others who have never had their questions answered. Yet, all resorted to go on the journey through the winding labyrinth called the Internet. Where a ferryman by the name of Google takes you over the river YouTube.
Questions need to be answered. Hank Hanegraaff is supposedly the Bible answer man. We may never know the truth why he left Calvinistic protestantism to join the Eastern Roman Church. but, what I am saying can only be applied in our own circle. The Internet (especially forums) is a can of worms, and a ecclesiastical multi headed hydra. I can really only effect those who are around me, you can really only effect those around you. to answer questions, to be able to encourage them to ask even harder. Yet, to not treat them like a troublemaker. because troublemakers don't ask questions to get answers. troublemakers ask question to cause problems, to play the game "Stump the Preacher." There are those who are sincere, and yet may be sincerely wrong, but still sincere. You have to tap into that sincerity and be able to pull them out of the fire.
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
Listen, there is a huge difference between navygoat1998 and Hank Hanergraff.
Hannergraf is a hater, who believes that speaking in tongues and Jesus name baptism is damnable heresies. He would debate you in a New York minute to prove his ideologies. Matthew 12:30 has everything to do with blaspheming the Holy Ghost. Are you telling navygoat1998 that he is indeed a blasphemer? He doesn't believe that speaking in tongues is of the devil, or that healings are of the devil. He doesn't attribute the works of the Holy Ghost to the devil
Well our brother navygoat has left us and joined with trinitarians, what do you call that?
He says he still believes in Oneness and much of the Apostolic ways, and I do not question his truthfulness or sincerity.
In my 35 years of being a oneness believer I have seen some people abandon the oneness doctrine, but their fall away from the doctrine was not sudden, it took some time before they gave it up.
When someone lives among the trinitarians it is only a matter of time, before little by little the apostolic doctrines start falling by the wayside one by one, maybe not today or tomorrow, but in some years it will seem like embracing the trinity belief is not so bad after all.
__________________
**Original Matthew 28:19 Restored**
Well our brother navygoat has left us and joined with trinitarians, what do you call that?
He says he still believes in Oneness and much of the Apostolic ways, and I do not question his truthfulness or sincerity.
In my 35 years of being a oneness believer I have seen some people abandon the oneness doctrine, but their fall away from the doctrine was not sudden, it took some time before they gave it up.
When someone lives among the trinitarians it is only a matter of time, before little by little the apostolic doctrines start falling by the wayside one by one, maybe not today or tomorrow, but in some years it will seem like embracing the trinity belief is not so bad after all.
navygoat1998 was raised in Apostolic Pentecost from his youth. I have teenagers of my own. Have watched young people grow up on pews, all different, all different levels of belief. Some wonderfully putting on a show that would win academy awards. Looking, sounding, and behaving very Apostolic. Yet their heart is far from the Apostolic faith. But, like I said all different levels, all different reasons why they stay an act like it till the day they die. Or leave never to return. Or leave to one day come back and stay. There are those who get committed, and will never change what they believe. They are Apostolic to the bone. Fathers and mothers should be extremely thankful. Now, navygoat1998 isn't a teenager, but he was brought up in this, and I tend to give those who are PKs, MKs, and CKs a wide birth. Because I wasn't raised in this, I wasn't brought to a shouting Apostolic service to sit on a pew, where some youth sit with a thousand-yard stare. While others in the youth group are sincere, or just going through the motions looking as genuine as any true saint of God. I didn't have that. I was getting tattooed at the age of 13, while some of you were listening to the finest preaching this side of heaven. But to your ears it was only Charlie Brown listening to his teacher.
Preaching to others, teaching Bible studies. Seeing sinners come to God, and get baptized in Jesus name. Watching them get revelation, seeing the power lead them and guide. Walking in the light as Jesus is in the light. I love, and work hard to see backsliders restored. But watching young people who were raised in this, go through battles, go through struggles, to see them drowning in unbelief, just to have an Apostolic throw them a cider block instead of a life preserver? I can only think of my girls. They have to ski slalom through a world who is trying to see them crash in unbelief. Let alone Apostolics sincere but unthinking helping the process of destruction. Don't anyone get me wrong, I am a firm believer that Jesus could preach, David could play his harp, and Paul can take up the evening offering, and some youth will still be lost for ever. Because the only one you can save is you, willingly obeying Jesus. People have to make their own life choices, they make their bed, they will have to sleep in it. Love, and self reflection is what 1st Corinthians 13 is all about. It has nothing to do with eschatology, or a completed canon. To the youth, in my home and my church family I don't want to sound like clanging brass, or a tinkling cymbal. I want to do my utmost to get out of Jesus' way, and allow Him to lead them to glory.
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
You named this thread that the Eastern Orthodox Church was a cult. I saw where you changed that due to issues concerning definitions. Yet, you believe that Hank made the wrong choice and that his now denomination is error. I agree it is error. But receiving the Spirit through repentance, how long can a neophyte (i due believe that is what you are taking about) can remain in false doctrine and still be in right standing with God?
You might want to ask that same question to our fellow Apostolics whose churches are riddled with error and false doctrines like tithing, pastor worship, rock concerts instead of congregational worship, more money for 3/4 empty buildings instead of for missions, no evangelism etc. You must be fair here. We will be held to the same standard by God that you are holding Trinitarians to. The average Apostolic church member I know has been conditioned to be a perpetual neophyte by wrong teaching concerning pastoral authority. If their pastor was to be ripped from their life, they would not know how to survive.
We are told to grow to maturity, so the neophyte comes to conversion baptism in Jesus name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues. Yet, they are to mature, not to remain children. Having some warm spot in one's heart for Trinitarians and saying that they will be saved in their practice and performance is turning a blind eye? Love means you protect your brother and sister by telling them the truth. the disciples were told to teach, preach, and baptize. What Charismatic/Pentecostal movements do is preach sometimes baptize, and the preacher becomes a life coach. People remain Biblically ignorant of the Bible and end up believing all sorts of lunacy. Guys like the Bible answer man, looks over the fence at that crazy unBiblical stuff and say "no thanks." i understand birth, but even in the physical, you don't leave a new born premature baby on the floor. Then expecting them to live.
sticking my neck way out here, knowing you all can debate me under the rug, but I feel like some have a bitter spirit, maybe because they were hurt, so they make a log out of a speck and turn away from brothers and sisters of like precious faith toward Trinitarians and those who preach doctrine that is much father away from the truth then those they are turning away from.
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