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  #61  
Old 10-14-2014, 07:23 PM
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KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
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Re: Dark Side of Pentecostalism (L)

I don't think every child needs to go to college or university. Trade schools really should be more of an option, instead of every child that goes to public school being pushed to enter university.

The anti-education ideas in Pentecost certainly existed in the past, but I do see a trend now where people realize that without an education, it is very hard to provide decently for your family, and the mindset, even in Pentecostal circles has changed for the most part.
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  #62  
Old 10-14-2014, 07:23 PM
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Re: Dark Side of Pentecostalism (L)

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
This is a red marker day - you and Bro. Epley are in agreement!!

Will wonders never cease!
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  #63  
Old 10-15-2014, 05:53 PM
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Re: Dark Side of Pentecostalism (L)

I learned early on about the need for higher education when I flunked Sand Piling 101 in kindergarten. Life can be tuff.
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  #64  
Old 02-21-2018, 08:53 AM
LongBeachCA LongBeachCA is offline
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Re: Dark Side of Pentecostalism (L)

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
Pentecostalism‘s Dark Side

by Roger R. Olson

Roger Olson teaches at George W. Truett Theological Seminary at Baylor University in Waco. Texas.

I was raised in a tiny Pentecostal denomination, the Open Bible Standard Churches, founded in part by disillusioned followers of 1930s revivalist Aimee Semple McPherson. My parents were Open Bible pastors, many of my uncles and aunts were missionaries, and one uncle served as the denomination’s president.

During my late teens and early 20s I was the quintessential Pentecostal preacher-boy. I first spoke in tongues at age 14, raised my hands in exuberant worship at revivals and camp meetings, witnessed to my friends at school and tried to convince Christian friends that they needed the "sign gift" of speaking in tongues to be fully Spirit-filled.

But in my high school years I began to be bothered by some Pentecostal teachings and practices. Eventually my doubts and questions led to a difficult departure from the spiritual movement of my youth; I became a Baptist immediately after graduating from a Baptist seminary at age 26. I recall breathing a great sigh of relief when I finally exited the Full Gospel movement, as we liked to call Pentecostalism. And yet, my heart was heavy because it meant leaving my spiritual home. And I knew my loved ones were all praying for me to recover my spiritual fervor.

Over the years I’ve met many other men and women who grew up in the thick of North American Pentecostalism and left it under similar circumstances and for similar reasons. Although the movement has matured since I turned in my Pentecostal credentials, it has a ways to go before it becomes a fully healthy and health-giving part of the Christian community.

I say this without rancor or bitterness, and I do not intend any harm to Pentecostal churches or individuals. The movement is still relatively young as religious movements go; I have confidence it will continue to mature. Some of my dearest friends are Pentecostals; I admire them for their passion and self-denial in the face of subtle persecution. In many places being Pentecostal is still wrongly considered tantamount to being a "hillbilly Holy Roller." People who think that way should take a look at the parking lots of many suburban Assemblies of God churches.

In this centennial year of American Pentecostalism’s founding, however, I feel compelled to register some concerns about its enduring immaturity as a movement. Some non-Pentecostal religious scholars, such as Harvey Cox (Fire from Heaven) and Philip Jenkins (The Next Christendom), have succumbed to "Pentecostal chic" -- a kind of romantic view of Pentecostalism as a much-needed spiritual movement of the poor and oppressed that fills the Western world’s "ecstasy deficit." Missing in some of these accounts is an awareness of the movement’s dark side.

Endemic to Pentecostalism is a profoundly anti-intellectual ethos. It is manifested in a deep suspicion of scholars and educators and especially biblical scholars and theologians. Yes, there are some Pentecostal scholars who are respected outside the movement: Russell Spittler served as a dean at Fuller Theological Seminary for years; Gordon Fee taught New Testament at Regent College in Vancouver and produced highly regarded volumes in biblical studies; Amos Yong holds a Ph.D. from Boston University and teaches in the doctoral program at Regent University Graduate School of Divinity. Yet too many Pentecostal leaders hold even their own scholars at arms length and view them with suspicion. Merely being a member of the Society for Pentecostal Studies often brings a Pentecostal scholar’s commitment to the movement into question.

This is without doubt the main reason I drifted away from the movement and eventually broke from it. I was not satisfied with the pat answers I was given by my mentors and teachers to questions I had about Pentecostal doctrines and practices.

For example: Billy Graham was and is a great hero to most Pentecostals, but he says he has never spoken in tongues. Is he not Spirit-filled? My questions on this issue were deftly turned aside, and subtle aspersions were cast on my spirituality merely for asking such questions. In the end, I was told that Graham is fully Spirit-filled even if he has never spoken in tongues. He’s the one exception. But were I to take up a career teaching theology in a Pentecostal college (I was told), I couldn’t teach that there might be exceptions to that distinctive doctrine. The cognitive dissonance wrought by this and other answers boggled my mind.

Not all Pentecostals are anti-intellectual or revel in incoherence. But a deep antipathy to critical rationality applied to theology is a hallmark of the movement. Too often spiritual abuse in the form of shame is directed at those, especially young people, who dare to question the teachings of highly placed Pentecostal ministers and evangelists.

I was one of the first Open Bible members to attend seminary and, like most Pentecostals who did that, I left the movement. I felt pushed out for wasting my time on intellectual pursuits rather than becoming a missionary or evangelist. Today evangelical seminaries are full of Pentecostal youths. Many of them still find doors closed when they return to their home denominations for ordination or for leadership positions in churches. Pentecostal scholars too often have to work outside Pentecostal institutions and live in the shadows and on the margins of the movement.

Shaking off this anti-intellectual attitude won’t be easy for the movement; it is part of Pentecostalism’s DNA. A good beginning would be to draw those Pentecostal scholars who work on the margins into the movement’s centers of power and leadership. Honest and open dialogue between Pentecostal leaders and the movement’s own intellectuals -- with promises there will be no negative consequences -- could help shake off some of the mutual suspicion and fear that haunts their relationships. And Pentecostal leaders need to pledge never again to subject eager, faithful and intellectually inclined young people to shame merely for asking tough questions about Pentecostal distinctives.

Another part of Pentecostalism’s dark side is rampant sexual and financial scandals. From early Pentecostal leader Charles Parham to Aimee Semple McPherson to Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart, the movement has been wracked by charges of misconduct, many of which have been substantiated by investigators.

In recent days a new scandal has been brewing over the conduct of Atlanta-based megachurch pastor Earl Paulk. Allegedly the Pentecostal bishop-pastor of the Cathedral of the Holy Spirit engaged in sex with several parishioners over a period of years. One accuser claims that he told her sex with him was necessary to revitalize his ministry and that he also lured her to engage in sex with a visiting pastor. Another woman brought a lawsuit claiming Paulk had sex with her when she was a teenager. Although Paulk has denied such charges and so far no verdicts have been delivered, the number and weight of the accusations add to the impression that not only Paulk but Pentecostalism has a problem with scandals.

Other Christian movements have suffered similar scandals, but Pentecostalism seems particularly rife with them. Insiders know some of the reasons. Deeply embedded within the Pentecostal movement’s ethos is a cult of personality; charismatic leaders are put on pedestals above accountability and are often virtually worshiped by many of their followers.

Too few courses in basic ethics are required in Pentecostal colleges (perhaps because many Pentecostals, especially older ones, assume that being Spirit-filled guarantees right behavior), and too many pastors handle the churches’ money and travel alone without having to account for their whereabouts or activities. It’s the movement’s own dirty little secret: sexual promiscuity and financial misconduct are rampant within its ranks, and little is done about this unless a scandal becomes public.

Several Pentecostal denominations have instituted policies to handle cases of pastoral moral turpitude and financial misconduct, but they have found those policies hard to enforce. At least one Pentecostal denomination has a policy that forbids investigation of charges that are more than five years old. One can only wonder why the leaders decided on that limit.

There is no body that regulates independent churches and ministers, but Pentecostal leaders could work harder to expose their colleagues who transgress and to warn their flocks (and others) against them. Far too much nervousness about powerful television and radio preachers infects well-intentioned and ethically sensitive Pentecostal leaders. It’s time for the movement to own up to its sometimes sleazy history and go the extra mile in cleaning house in the cases of ministers and evangelists who are less than honest and chaste. It should not be left to publications like Christianity Today and Charisma to reveal scandals involving Pentecostal ministers, evangelists and denominational executives.


Article continued at http://www.religion-online.org/showa...asp?title=3338

HOW ABOUT PASTOR EDDIE LONG or BISHOP EDDIE LONG? LOOK WHAT HE DID AND LIED ABOUT IT and he said I GOT 5 stones and I have not thrown my first one yet. He was a SICKO
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  #65  
Old 02-21-2018, 09:16 AM
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Scott Pitta Scott Pitta is offline
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Re: Dark Side of Pentecostalism (L)

Pentecostal churches can and do have fiscal accountability. But only if the church board is designed to carry the fiscal and accounting responsibility.

I was a church treasurer in a Pentecostal church. The pastor could not sign checks. He did not have access to the giving statements of members. He was paid a salary like all other church employees.

These controls, plus others, such as a public itemized financial report of all income and expenses, provide fiscal responsibility and protect ministers from financial misconduct.

William Francis Manley is probably the first anti-intellectual in Pentecostalism. 100 years into the Oneness Pentecostal movement, there are few accredited colleges for ministerial training. Considerable progress is being made. But cumulative progress has hampered the movement.
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  #66  
Old 02-21-2018, 04:41 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Dark Side of Pentecostalism (L)

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Originally Posted by LongBeachCA View Post
HOW ABOUT PASTOR EDDIE LONG or BISHOP EDDIE LONG? LOOK WHAT HE DID AND LIED ABOUT IT and he said I GOT 5 stones and I have not thrown my first one yet. He was a SICKO
Bishop Eddie Long and Pastor Eddie Long?

Are they twins?

You have 5 stones? I suggest you drink lots of cranberry juice until they pass.
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  #67  
Old 02-22-2018, 03:16 PM
LongBeachCA LongBeachCA is offline
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Re: Dark Side of Pentecostalism (L)

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Pentecostalism has a ways to go before becoming part of the Christian community?

It is assumed that Evangelical cults are the true body of Christ! THEY are the example of Christianity!

In what way are Evangelicals a better example of Christians than Pentecostals?

And again my point is NOT that Pentecostals ARE the perfect example for Christianity. My point is that the author acts as if Evangelicals ARE!

He holds THEM up as true Christianity while Pentecostals are standing out in right field somewhere.
I have always said as many have that if the MANGUNS @ THE POA ANTHONY & MICKEY MANGUN would ever take over the UPCI as in PASTOR ANTHONY becoming the SUPERINTENDENT OR BISHOP of the UPCI they would turn this organization around and clean it up. I have a lot of respect for how the MANGUNS RUN THE POA and it shows by the amount of members they have and they keep. AND THEY EVEN have members that pay tithes and offerings and keep coming just to hear him preach that are really BAPTIST and of other faiths. I have seen many that come there that do not look by standards wise PENTECOSTAL but they KEEP coming because of his preaching. GOD deals with people on his time and their time. Not the PASTORS and the SAINTS TIME. He also has people in POLITICS that frequent his church services.
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  #68  
Old 02-22-2018, 03:24 PM
houston houston is offline
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Re: Dark Side of Pentecostalism (L)

Yes. AM was a great influence on Bill Clinton.
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  #69  
Old 02-23-2018, 04:09 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Dark Side of Pentecostalism (L)

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Yes. AM was a great influence on Bill Clinton.
That was funny
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