Tongues and Biblical Truth

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by TheLayman

You will forgive me if I find this interesting so I have to ask you opinion on something from the AOG website. BTW, if anyone is wondering I am well aware that you are not AOG, but you are Pentecostal with the same beginnings so there may be a little Pentecostal language that means something a little different.

So, on that AOG website it says this about those fundamental truths:

This "Statement of Fundamental Truths" contains the 16 doctrines of the Assemblies of God. These are non-negotiable tenets of faith that all Assemblies of God churches adhere to. Four of these, Salvation, the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, Divine Healing, and the Second Coming of Christ are considered Cardinal Doctrines which are essential to the church's core mission of reaching the world for Christ.

So, that sounds like "you must" to me, but because of what you told me I looked more and found a position paper on the doctrine which says this:

The official doctrinal statements of the Assemblies of God regarding baptism in the Holy Spirit are found in the Statement of Fundamental Truths and are as follows:

7. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit

All believers are entitled to and should ardently expect and earnestly seek the promise of the Father, the baptism in the Holy Spirit and fire, according to the command of our Lord Jesus Christ. This was the normal experience of all in the early Christian church. With it come the enduement of power for life and service, the bestowment of the gifts and their uses in the work of the ministry (Luke 24:49; Acts 1:4,8; 1 Corinthians 12:1–31). This experience is distinct from and subsequent to the experience of the new birth (Acts 8:12–17; 10:44–46; 11:14–16; 15:7–9). With the baptism in the Holy Spirit come such experiences as an overflowing fullness of the Spirit (John 7:37–39; Acts 4:8), a deepened reverence for God (Acts 2:43; Hebrews 12:28), an intensified consecration to God and dedication to His work (Acts 2:42), and a more active love for Christ, for His Word, and for the lost (Mark 16:20).

8. The Initial Physical Evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit

The baptism of believers in the Holy Spirit is witnessed by the initial physical sign of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit of God gives them utterance (Acts 2:4). The speaking in tongues in this instance is the same in essence as the gift of tongues (1 Corinthians 12:4–10,28), but different in purpose and use.

Okay, so as I read that I get the distinction which you spoke of and while baptism of the Holy Spirit is something that "ardently expect and earnestly seek" for the reasons given, it is not essential to salvation as it is distinct subsequent to the new birth.

So, if I have that right then just to be sure I understand, you are saying that some Oneness have a similar/same view as this, and others would say that Baptism in the Holy Spirit is indeed part of the new birth and is therefore necessary. Those who hold the position of the AOG (or similar) believe the initial evidence of tongues always accompanies baptism in the Holy Spirit, but since it is not part of the new birth experience it is not necessary to speak in tongues to be saved. However, if you view baptism in the Holy Spirit as part of the new birth experience, and it is always accompanied by tongues, then the initial evidence is part and parcel to salvation. Do I pretty much have it now?

TheLayman

Yes, that's pretty much it.

Keep in mind, while some Pentecostals may believe Holy Spirit baptism is distinct from and after new birth/regeneration, they may still believe it is essential to salvation in the sense they believe that without it one will either inevitably backslide, or else will have stopped growing in grace.

The same debate (minus the tongues issue) was common amongst the Holiness groups in regard to the issue of entire sanctification, by the way.