Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

[TyronePalmer]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Options for the Man of Sin:

1. Jews rebuild a temple. Global political and/or religious leader performs miraculous signs, enters the temple, and announces to the world via CNN or Twitter that he is the Supreme Being all humans have been worshipping. The world loves it and throws a parade.

Problem: A rebuilt Jewish temple could not be "the temple OF GOD." The NT teaches that the church is the temple of God.

Problem: He would have nowhere to "sit" unless he brought in a chair?

Problem: The vast majority of earth's population would NEVER submit to some world dictator ruling from a JEWISH temple. No Muslim would. No Eastern Orthodox would. Most Roman Catholics would reject him. These alone cover over 2/3rds of the world population. Only hokey dispensationalists and some hyper Orthodox Jews would believe it, and the dispensationalists would all be wondering where the rapture went. Half of Jewry opposes any attempt to rebuild a Temple anyway. Its just not workable.

2. The pope.

Problem: The pope rules the RCC (in name only, he's not actually in charge of anything, that would be the cardinals and Old Roman nobility). The RCC is not the temple of God.

3. Unknown Jew in the 60s AD.

Problem: Huh?

4. Clericalism itself.

Problem: None, it fits ALL data points about "the man of sin".

Well if you think it's not going to be an actual "man of sin", or "son of perdition" then how do you explain Rev. 13:1-10?

The scriptures clearly tell us that the beast will be GIVEN the power, the throne and great authority from the dragon/satan himself.

"The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority."

Notice the scripture says "him/his", so it goes from beast, to him/his. Can't we interpret that as meaning it will be a physical human being, a man?

Now if the scriptures say this man will be GIVEN all this power, throne, and authority from satan and it will be GRANTED to him, to make war and overcome the saints and he will have authority over every tribe, tongue, and nation AND ALL who dwell on the earth WILL worship him, whose names are not written.

Shouldn't we believe what the scriptures say? Even though we may not understand the who, how, and when? Rev. is obviously full of symbols, prophecies, and spiritual meanings that are very easily misinterpreted, but I believe if we see an actual human man (in a position of authority let's say) be mortally wounded in his head and be miraculously healed, we better pay attention!

7-8 "It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

One of the powers of satan is deception of the whole world! This 'man of sin' will have the same power to deceive ALL the nations!

Rev. 12:9

"So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Didn't Jesus say to Pontius Pilate that he would have no power over Him unless it was GIVEN to him from above?

John 19:11

"Jesus answered, “You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.”

Didn't Hitler rise up and take control over a whole nation and try to conquer the whole world? Imagine Hitler times a thousand!

Many, many things go on in this physical world that started in the spiritual realm, many of those things decreed and ordained by God Himself!

Yes sir, I believe we will actually live to see the "man of sin" bka "The antichrist" and I also believe there will be a peace treaty signed for Israel and Palestine, and that they will indeed build a physical third temple on the mount where the Dome of the Rock now sits, likely side by side, only time will tell!

Until then we can debate, discuss, and disagree! But one thing we all need to do is be sure we're in the faith and make sure our souls are in right standing with the Most High God! Because many things can happen when we least expect them!

[Sean]

Originally Posted by TyronePalmer

Great explanation of the "not appointed to wrath" scriptures!

He was wrong. The 1st scripture was preceded by God's wrath.

Esaias slyly melded it into human wrath.

[Sean]

The real context.....



1 Thessalonians 5King James Version (KJV)

5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,




You see the wrath spoken of is the day of the Lord, which we are not appointed to be part of.

[TyronePalmer]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Wow! Hard hitting and powerful truth!

Indeed it is brother Mike!

[Sean]

And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh....

So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.



Yes, the timing of the rapture of the church will immediately usher in this man...




2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:




Yes, the Church(kingdom of God/Holy Ghost) removed, to allow the man of sin to reign for a short time.

[Sean]

The man of sin cannot rule the earth until God takes a step back.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by TyronePalmer

[SIZE="2"]Well if you think it's not going to be an actual "man of sin", or "son of perdition" then how do you explain Rev. 13:1-10?

The beast and the man of sin are not the same thing. That is Jesuit Counter-Reformation propaganda.

[TyronePalmer]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The beast and the man of sin are not the same thing. That is Jesuit Counter-Reformation propaganda.

So you believe?

I don't know anything about the Jesuit Counter-Reformation Propaganda and by their name I don't want to know either!

[Amanah]

tagging this thread for reference

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by TyronePalmer

So you believe?

I don't know anything about the Jesuit Counter-Reformation Propaganda and by their name I don't want to know either!

Your lack of perfect knowledge on this subject means you are doctrinally impure and thus consigned to hell.