Why Aren't Sins Washed Away At Baptism?

[BuckeyeBukaroo]

If they are washed away at baptism, would that make us akin to the Campbellites?

[Strict Baptist]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBukaroo

If they are washed away at baptism, would that make us akin to the Campbellites?

That would also make you equal to Rome and possibly Christadelphians. The former on that point are emphatic.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBukaroo

If they are washed away at baptism, would that make us akin to the Campbellites?

No. Campbellites believe in Baptismal Regeneration. We believe that sins are forgiven through the authority of Christ in baptism. In baptism, God, for Christ's sake, forgives us. But it only through the infilling of the Spirit that we are regenerated, and that normatively follows baptism.

[1ofthechosen]

All I can say is what Jesus says in Luke 24:47 "that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."
So how are the sins remitted is revealed in Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
The word translated here as "remission" comes from the Greek word "aphesis". Which the "Thayer's Greek Lexicon" defines as "release from bondage or imprisonment
forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty."

So that does mean they are washed away in His name.

[Strict Baptist]

Originally Posted by Originalist

No. Campbellites believe in Baptismal Regeneration. We believe that sins are forgiven through the authority of Christ in baptism. In baptism, God, for Christ's sake, forgives us. But it only through the infilling of the Spirit that we are regenerated, and that normatively follows baptism.

That means the submerging still had something to do with deliverance. I suppose the logical question is how the two views differ, since regeneration involves in both systems a dipping.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Strict Baptist

That means the submerging still had something to do with deliverance. I suppose the logical question is how the two views differ, since regeneration involves in both systems a dipping.

Baptism really is the way we submit to the Lordship of Christ, his exaltation. It's about surrendering the vessel, purchased by Christ, to God. Because we submit to the reign of his Son, that Son then becomes our propitiation. God forgives us for CHRIST's sake. Then we are all set to be regenerated. Why God chose to include baptism in that mix is his business. I just obey.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

All I can say is what Jesus says in Luke 24:47 "that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."

You do understand that the grammatical lay-out of this verse points to the preaching about repentance and the remission of sins being done in his name, right? He is commanding his disciples in his name or by his authority, to preach repentance and the forgiveness of sins.

So how are the sins remitted is revealed in Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
The word translated here as "remission" comes from the Greek word "aphesis". Which the "Thayer's Greek Lexicon" defines as "release from bondage or imprisonment
forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty."

So that does mean they are washed away in His name.

[1ofthechosen]

Originalist you said "You do understand that the grammatical lay-out of this verse points to the preaching about repentance and the remission of sins being done in his name, right? He is commanding his disciples in his name or by his authority, to preach repentance and the forgiveness of sins."

I do realize that, but how is the name applied? And how are the sins remitted? By the scripture?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Strict Baptist

That would also make you equal to Rome and possibly Christadelphians. The former on that point are emphatic.

Not quite. Rome accepts YOUR baptism (if the trinitarian formula is used) as a valid, though irregular, baptism. Rome does not accept our baptisms as valid at all. In fact, Rome is emphatic that all baptisms, performed with the trinitarian formula, make one a Roman Catholic, though in schism:

"Right intention is the intention to do what the Church wants, what Christ wants

Even non-Catholics can validly administer Baptism. In every case, however, it is the Baptism of the Catholic Church, which does not belong to those who separate themselves from her but to the Church from which they have separated themselves (cf. Augustine, On Baptism 1, 12,9). This validity is possible because Christ is the true minister of the sacrament: Christ is the one who truly baptizes, whether it is Peter or Paul or Judas who baptizes (cf. Augustine, Treatise on the Gospel of John VI, 1,7; cf. CCC n. 1127). The Council of Trent, confirming this tradition, defined that Baptism administered by heretics in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, with the intention of doing what the Catholic Church does is true Baptism (cf. DH 1617). http://www.ewtn.com/library/theology/mormbap1.htm

1239 The essential rite of the sacrament follows: Baptism properly speaking. It signifies and actually brings about death to sin and entry into the life of the Most Holy Trinity through configuration to the Paschal mystery of Christ. Baptism is performed in the most expressive way by triple immersion in the baptismal water. However, from ancient times it has also been able to be conferred by pouring the water three times over the candidate's head.

1240 In the Latin Church this triple infusion is accompanied by the minister's words: "N., I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." In the Eastern liturgies the catechumen turns toward the East and the priest says: "The servant of God, N., is baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." At the invocation of each person of the Most Holy Trinity, the priest immerses the candidate in the water and raises him up again.

1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church." "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn." - all three citations from the Catechism of the Catholic Church

Can. 869 §1 If there is doubt as to whether a person was baptised or whether a baptism was conferred validly, and after serious enquiry this doubt persists, the person is to be baptised conditionally.

§2 Those baptised in a non-catholic ecclesial community are not to be baptised conditionally unless there is a serious reason for doubting the validity of their baptism, on the ground of the matter or the form of words used in the baptism, or of the intention of the adult being baptised or of that of the baptising minister. Canon Law of the Roman Catholic church - http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_P2W.HTM

Additionally, Rome teaches that the Holy Spirit is automatically conferred in the sacrament of baptism (trinitarian baptism, that is). Campbellites believe likewise. Apostolics* do not believe the Spirit is automatically received via water baptism.

*I use the term "apostolics" to refer to those who genunely adhere to the teachings of the apostles as recorded in the Holy Bible. Not all "oneness Penetecostals" are actually apostolic, even if they use the term "apostolic" to describe themselves.

[Esaias]

Found an old post of mine: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=44265

http://www.eng.auburn.edu/~sjreeves/...ptism_faq.html

Quote:
The 1689 Confession is admittedly not as clear on this point as it could be. But Keach's Catechism, which was written to clarify the theology of the Confession, makes it pretty clear:

Q. 95. What are the outward and ordinary means whereby Christ communicates to us the benefits of redemption?
A. The outward and ordinary means whereby Christ communicates to us the benefits of redemption are His ordinances, especially the Word, Baptism, the Lord's Supper and Prayer; all which are made effectual to the elect for salvation. (Rom. 10:17; James 1:18; 1 Cor. 3:5; Acts 14:1; 2:41,42)

Q. 98. How do Baptism and the Lord's Supper become effectual means of salvation?

A. Baptism and the Lord's Supper become effectual means of salvation, not from any virtue in them or in him that administers them, but only by the blessing of Christ and the working of His Spirit in them that by faith receive them. (1 Peter 3:21; 1 Cor. 3:6,7; 1 Cor. 12:13)

Q. 99. Wherein do Baptism and the Lord's Supper differ from the other ordinances of God?

A. Baptism and the Lord's Supper differ from the other ordinances of God in that they were specially instituted by Christ to represent and apply to believers the benefits of the new covenant by visible and outward signs. (Matt. 28:19; Acts 22:16; Matt. 26:26-28; Rom. 6:4)

Therefore, baptism is a means of grace in Reformed Baptist theology.

Quote:
Baptists have historically seen baptism as the culmination of the conversion experience. Among other things, it seals and confirms, both to the party being baptized and to others, that the party has engaged to be the Lord's and is now united with Him. Although no warrant is given to baptize someone with the goal of converting him, in many cases the person may exercise faith in Christ through the means either of contemplating or participating in baptism. Beasley-Murray in Baptism in the New Testament makes a very strong case that the conversion experience and the act of baptism need not be separated in our conception of the two, since the NT so often speaks of them in an interchangeable manner. This is true, in spite of the fact that the two can be separated for study or in one's experience. From the believer's perspective, baptism can be viewed as a visible prayer in which the believer "signifies [his] ingrafting into Christ and partaking of the benefits of the covenant of grace, and [his] engagement to be the Lord's."