Should we teach others to rebel against standards?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Mike, isn't your beard falling out?

Not so much falling out its just not growing like it used to. I trimmed pretty short a while back to try out a shave only UPC Church. I dont know if it will grow back like it used to be or not.

Just understand, this is not about ME. Its about Biblical truth and the hope that many Apostolics who follow after us wont be satisfied to follow vain man made traditions that have no power and only make Preachers look like hypocrites.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I'm glad we can joke about this because I do love Bro Michael.

Peace and love my friend

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

But what constitutes a "church"? What is the minimal number of believers for having a "church" or "assembly"?

Chris, how'd the Greeks use the word ἐκκλησία? You do understand it didn't originate in the New Testament?

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think it would be strange if every member grew a beard. I wouldn't want that. I would find it equally as repugnant if all men were expected to wear a beard. That isn't biblical either.

Like I said, I know individuals who will preach and teach with scripture that you need to wear a beard. They will present arguments with book, chapter, and verse. They also don't believe women should shave. No cutting or shaving anything.

Originally Posted by Aquila

But you asked what else would I be disgruntled about... that's an awesomely introspective question.

It might depend on the church. Any standard built on Scripture is okay with me. Standards of dress do fall under modesty, and modesty is clearly taught in the Bible. So, I'd be okay with standards regarding dress and attire. There is Scripture for not wearing gold and costly array. So, standards against non-functional jewelry and even wedding bands are understandable. I don't buy into the women's hair needing to be uncut thing, but clearly a woman's hair should be long according to Scripture, so a hair standard is "biblical" in principle. Standards regarding television and various worldly entertainments are also biblical, because the Bible discusses those things.

Yet, with the hair issue you only have philosophical debate, nothing more. Like everything else you argue for or against. Opening up your own church isn't an option because you are given to change, and you are still struggling on that.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'd say that if the church wants to

force me

to observe Jewish feast days, Jewish dietary standards, and act or dress Jewish, that would be too much for me. I'd not want anything to do with such Judaizing doctrine.

You know Chris, that's maybe your problem. You really act like a dog that has been chained up in the yard too long, A beaten dog that flinches every time you lift your hand to itch the top of your head. You always see everything as being forced to do something. Probably ever since you set a foot in the church. Everything was a forced issue to you. That may be the reason you see the Apostolic ultraconservative movement as Texas Chainsaw Massacre 3.0?

Originally Posted by Aquila

It would also matter to me that my pastor understood (or would be willing to understand) the plight of those of us with PTSD and be open minded regarding available therapies and medications.

Here is the guy who wants to be "BIBLICAL"

The Holy Ghost!!! That's what they need, not drugs.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Aquila

That's very reasonable.

But what do you do when every Apostolic church in your area would rather you not attend, or would relegate you strictly to the pews, on account of your beard? You know it isn't in Scripture. They know it isn't in Scripture. Yet their tradition is clearly more important than your family's eternity. Where do you go? What do you do?

For example, in my situation, I can't just "go somewhere where it is ok"... unless I'm wanting to go back to a non-Apostolic fellowship. Which isn't what I want. I just left one. lol

Chris you have made it plain you don't want to go to a traditional church anyway? so even if there was a WMB church, you still would not be happy there, right?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Just don't try to push your beliefs on everybody, like the sun rises and sets for you!

Again, you might not be against beards personally. But your mindset has been influenced to think that for those of us who see importance in this matter we think it is "the sun rises and sets for us".

That's gobblygook. We don't think the sun rises and sets for us. The light of truth rises and sets in Scripture. We're advocating elevating Scripture above the traditions of man.

Imagine if a pastor established a standard requiring prayer beads. Now imagine that it grew in popularity until multiple Apostolic organizations embraced the standard that we must all use prayer beads. You want to attend an Apostolic church, but every church requires prayer beads. And you have brethren saying:

- Pastors have the right to set a prayer bead standard, and you'll be blessed if you just submit. I submitted to my pastor's prayer bead standard, and you know what? I was blessed.

- If Jesus really mattered to you, you'd go and just accept the prayer bead standard for the sake of truth. Pray the prayer beads. Be in submission.

- People who don't pray prayer beads don't go to church anyway.

- People who refuse to pray with prayer beads are rebellious, prideful, and possessed of the devil.

- Don't push your opinion on prayer beads. Just find somewhere else to go.

But what do you do when every Apostolic church around you requires prayer beads?

Because a prohibition on beards is just as unbiblical as a standard requiring prayer beads.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

A Dixie cup holds 3 oz of water. I think the priest pours more than that on an infant. You are no one to talk oh defender of the fuzzy face. Biblically correct is now throwing 3 ounces on water on someone. Biblical truth clearly doesn't matter to these men??? You are a ecclesiastical ballerina.





You were snowflaking out? You were illustrating how dramatic you can get when you want us to believe your rhetoric. You were a Quaker? Or you were in a fake Quaker wedding?



Bro, why is it our fault when we draw the conclusions to the stupid things you might say? It doesn't make you a bad guy, it is just you post sometimes without giving much thought to your words. You accuse us for not being Biblical but you have posted some flipped out things in the past, present, and I know you will in the future. Don't blame us when we draw logical conclusions to your nonsense.



All this from a guy who has posted that he prays that dead Trinitarians get a pass. Whatever.



I think I can clearly see why RR follows your posts.



When you show the prohibition against shaved faces.

What a religious bobby pin.

Still no Scripture supporting a beard prohibition, huh? LOL

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Not so much falling out its just not growing like it used to. I trimmed pretty short a while back to try out a shave only UPC Church. I dont know if it will grow back like it used to be or not.

https://www.beardbrand.com/blogs/urb...topped-growing

Scroll down to the bottom. Where it talks about health, stress, exercise. All these three are important factors in hair growth and loss. Your hair on your head might disappear, but your beard should grow as long as a woman's hair. Sleep is a major factor in combating stress issues.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Just understand, this is not about ME. Its about Biblical truth and the hope that many Apostolics who follow after us wont be satisfied to follow vain man made traditions that have no power and only make Preachers look like hypocrites.

As for me and my house we will use Gillette!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Still no Scripture supporting a beard prohibition, huh? LOL

Chris, you have no scripture that demands a beard, or demands that we have no beard. It is all preference of the church family. But I already told you all this in the thread entitled "beards." You know for a guy who wears a beard, you sure act like a girl. So, man up, and figure out that this is all about what the Church family prefers. You don't like it? Then don't go to a church that does what you don't like. Dig it?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Hey Bro, You talk like there are plenty of MWB Churches around. If they were that easy to find we would probably be there already. But again like you said theres more to a Church than men having a beard!

They don't understand. It's like back when blacks weren't allowed to use the same public pools as whites. They'd say, "Just go to another pool." There often wasn't another pool available that allowed blacks to swim for miles.

It's all ignorance and pastor worship. These are the same folks that would be agreeing that there's nothing wrong with being black, but if those are the rules, and they want to swim, they shouldn't make waves. They should just go somewhere else.

No one has the guts to say, "Wow. That isn't biblical. That's dead wrong man."

And nobody with any clout in these Apostolic organizations have the GUTs to try to change things either.

Every Apostolic church near me has made it clear. If I have a beard, I'm not entirely welcome. Some will let me sit in the pews as long as I'm giving money. But I better not think of joining the choir or anything.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by houston

Look. Bearded guys. Start a church in your living room. Problem solved.

If I had time I would do the same. For the time being it’s beans, rice, and Jesus Christ.

I'm not elder material bro.