Do we have to pay tithes?

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Bro, tell me what is this whole nation?

The nation of Judah, not everyone not just the priests. They are saying it's just the priests from 2:1 to 3:5 I believe that's the context. He ends the context with "saith the Lord of hosts." Then 3:6 is Him speaking towards them. And then 3:7 brings a new context as even my Bible has a context mark there.

And even is italicised so it's added so it says "ye have robbed me, this whole nation."

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

David and Goliath was written in the 6th century B.C. look at 1 Samuel 17:4-5 "And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span. [5] And he had an helmet of brass upon his head, and he was armed with a coat of mail; and the weight of the coat was five thousand shekels of brass."

So I think this shows it couldn't be money, but it was a weight system for precious metals, and things of that nature. A barter system a going rate in weight.

I'm just asking. So, you don't think that when the Bible mentions the word money, 32 times in Genesis, 117 times total in the Old Testament and 25 times in the New Testament, that it doesn't mean money? Not any of those times?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Ouch, I just lost my place after 1:21:47, I think the oxygen masks just fell from the ceiling.

Do you perceive what I meant when I said that there is more irony where that came from?

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I'm just asking. So, you don't think that when the Bible mentions the word money, 32 times in Genesis, 117 times total in the Old Testament and 25 times in the New Testament, that it doesn't mean money? Not any of those times?

It's a trade barter weight. Not money as we know it, it's a weight. Goliaths coat shows that, a shekel is a weight scale.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

And was God saying that "Ye AND this whole nation have robbed me" or "Ye have robbed Me in addition to this whole nation"?

It is actually an accusation against the Levites who through their corruption have led the people astray Malachi 2:8. Malachi 3:1-3 speaks of a warning to the Levis that a messenger is coming to the Temple to purify the shekel, even the utensils of the altar, so therefore the offering will be holy. When this messenger would come He will then make the offerings righteous Malachi 3:4. The prophet goes on to read them their crimes, that are contained in the law of Moses. drugs, perjury, defrauding the one who works for you of their pay, oppression of widows, orphans, and proselytes. Not teaching everyone the fear of the Lord. Then God signs this portion with Lord of the military, which isn't a good look, it means He is coming to give out a beat down. Malachi 3:6 God says He doesn't change He keeps His promises therefore the fleshly sons of Jacob remain. Malachi 3:7 God tells the leadership that since the time of their ancestors they never did the right thing, but please repent, and therefore when the refiner comes you will be saved. Yet, here is where they want to know how they need to be saved? This is the point of the whole book, the answer is contained in Malachi 3:8, by keeping the law. This is what He asks them to do, do what their ancestors refused to do. It was that simple. Malachi 3:9 Here is the curse which didn't only curse the blind guides, but those who they were leading. Still Malachi 3:10 seals the deal, the Levites again are told to follow the law correctly, by bringing everything into the storehouse. This is a governmental decision by God to provide for the people in which the Levites were to serve. The blessings would be the blessings of Joseph how he was blessed as well as the nation he served.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

David and Goliath was written in the 6th century B.C. look at 1 Samuel 17:4-5 "And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span. [5] And he had an helmet of brass upon his head, and he was armed with a coat of mail; and the weight of the coat was five thousand shekels of brass."

Actually, I think what you are missing is that it can be, and indeed was, both weight AND money.

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

So I think this shows it couldn't be money, but it was a weight system for precious metals, and things of that nature. A barter system a going rate in weight.

It was money. But, I'm going to move on.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

It is actually an accusation against the Levites who through their corruption have led the people astray Malachi 2:8. Malachi 3:1-3 speaks of a warning to the Levis that a messenger is coming to the Temple to purify the shekel, even the utensils of the altar, so therefore the offering will be holy. When this messenger would come He will then make the offerings righteous Malachi 3:4. The prophet goes on to read them their crimes, that are contained in the law of Moses. drugs, perjury, defrauding the one who works for you of their pay, oppression of widows, orphans, and proselytes. Not teaching everyone the fear of the Lord. Then God signs this portion with Lord of the military, which isn't a good look, it means He is coming to give out a beat down. Malachi 3:6 God says He doesn't change He keeps His promises therefore the fleshly sons of Jacob remain. Malachi 3:7 God tells the leadership that since the time of their ancestors they never did the right thing, but please repent, and therefore when the refiner comes you will be saved. Yet, here is where they want to know how they need to be saved? This is the point of the whole book, the answer is contained in Malachi 3:8, by keeping the law. This is what He asks them to do, do what their ancestors refused to do. It was that simple. Malachi 3:9 Here is the curse which didn't only curse the blind guides, but those who they were leading. Still Malachi 3:10 seals the deal, the Levites again are told to follow the law correctly, by bringing everything into the storehouse. This is a governmental decision by God to provide for the people in which the Levites were to serve. The blessings would be the blessings of Joseph how he was blessed as well as the nation he served.

The nation of Judah, not everyone not just the priests. They are saying it's just the priests from 2:1 to 3:5 I believe that's the context. He ends the context with "saith the Lord of hosts." Then 3:6 is Him speaking towards them. And then 3:7 brings a new context as even my Bible has a context mark there. Where He has widened this to entail all and everyone. Or it wouldn't say "ye have robbed me, this whole nation." Because even was added to the text.

And "even" is italicised so it's added so it says "ye have robbed me, this whole nation."

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Actually, I think what you are missing is that it can be, and indeed was, both weight AND money.



It was money. But, I'm going to move on.

Is polished shells used by the Pequots was that "money?"

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Actually, I think what you are missing is that it can be, and indeed was, both weight AND money.



It was money. But, I'm going to move on.

That weight was equal to money yes. Of certain metals, and materials yes. But it wasn't a coin. It couldve been a sapphire or whatever, but it wasn't a coin. But it was the cash so to speak of that day in age I'll agree. But so were animals and produce so your argument is proving what I'm saying. Because all of it had a trade scale. So all the things given would've had a monetary value, if they weren't given to the priest and sold elsewhere. It was all as good as money.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

The nation of Judah, not everyone not just the priests. They are saying it's just the priests from 2:1 to 3:5 I believe that's the context. He ends the context with "saith the Lord of hosts." Then 3:6 is Him speaking towards them. And then 3:7 brings a new context as even my Bible has a context mark there. Where He has widened this to entail all and everyone. Or it wouldn't say "ye have robbed me, this whole nation." Because even was added to the text.

And "even" is italicised so it's added so it says "ye have robbed me, this whole nation."

OK, I understand what you are getting to, but you need to see the context. The charge is against the Levites, it was their job to teach the people Deuteronomy 33:10, 2 Chronicles 30:22, 2 Chronicles 35:3, Nehemiah 8:7-13, then here in Malachi 2:6-7. Here is an accusation against leadership of the tribes. The Levite were blind guides leading the blind into a ditch, they were accountable under their ministry misguidance. Therefore the whole nation would be in jeopardy. Yet, God doesn't direct them to do the lionshare of the repentance, but the leadership who had access to the storehouses like Joseph in Egypt.

Only then they would dodge the bullet aimed at their heads.