Do we have to pay tithes?

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

If the elders aren't in the same church family, all he has his friends who live in different areas. That isn't what is meant by plurality of elders.

Where are you drawing this conclusion from? Titus 1:5-6?

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

He needs to answer the rest because I don't know what he was trying to say concerning tithes.

Maybe he gives tithes to each elder in his church family?

If he does that, he's a spiritual giant! LOL. Maybe he will answer, I think we are close to hearing something brand new on this thread.. Where's Tithesmeister at?

[Apostolic1ness]

So how do the bills get paid at the church....please dont say offering, God knows if you think tithing isnt biblical giving in the offering isn't either.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

So how do the bills get paid at the church....please dont say offering, God knows if you think tithing isnt biblical giving in the offering isn't either.

No electric, candles.

It's Biblical

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Plurality of elders.

Jesus sent His ministers out two by two. Also a witness of judgement could only be performed by two or three. The only head being Christ, and Christ alone. He is the one who has preeminence. The only time we see a minister seeking preeminence is with the minister Diotrephes. But, when we are told about his seeking of preeminence it is relayed in a bad light.

This is truth.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

So how do the bills get paid at the church....please dont say offering, God knows if you think tithing isnt biblical giving in the offering isn't either.

Most on here believe the church to be a self sufficient organism, that has no biblical designation of how it should be done. They believe Malachi 3 to be to only the priests, not everyone else. And that tithing is some practice from antiquity, that was just for the Jews. They take it to mean just produce, and cattle, and that it was never designated to mean money. Yea electric candles, and a generator to run the sound system, is the only way to keep the church going.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

So how do the bills get paid at the church....please dont say offering, God knows if you think tithing isnt biblical giving in the offering isn't either.

Offerings. Offerings were biblical, tithes were biblical. Offerings were sometimes money (in the Bible). Tithes were never money (in the Bible). If you're going to pay bills with tithes, you would have to barter. Offerings were given in money in the Bible. Tithes never were. Tithes, by the direction of God, were not allowed to be rendered in money.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Offerings. Offerings were biblical, tithes were biblical. Offerings were sometimes money (in the Bible). Tithes were never money (in the Bible). If you're going to pay bills with tithes, you would have to barter. Offerings were given in money in the Bible. Tithes never were. Tithes, by the direction of God, were not allowed to be rendered in money.

Ok sounds good, chapter and verse please.... That say's what you are saying.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Most on here believe the church to be a self sufficient organism, that has no biblical designation of how it should be done. They believe Malachi 3 to be to only the priests, not everyone else. And that tithing is some practice from antiquity, that was just for the Jews. They take it to mean just produce, and cattle, and that it was never designated to mean money. Yea electric candles, and a generator to run the sound system, is the only way to keep the church going.

Brother, please don't confuse the direction from God (tithing agricultural produce), with the tradition of men (tithing money). I believe the statement in bold above should not be said this way. It should say that GOD said that the tithe was to be produce and cattle, but MEN have decided that they would rather it would be money.

See the difference?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

So how do the bills get paid at the church....please dont say offering, God knows if you think tithing isnt biblical giving in the offering isn't either.

I believe that the NT presents us with a better option which I've heard called, "Grace Giving". This model of giving is composed of free will offerings and vows (pledges).

I believe "grace giving" becomes superior to tithing. In "grace giving", not only do individuals give voluntary offerings as led when the needs of the church are brought before the body, but individuals can prayerfully "vow" (or pledge) to give so much per check. This can be a percentage of their check, or even a certain amount over a period of time (for example pledging to give $3000 over a year's time). This way the church can make financial forecasts, etc. In this way a responsibility to give is established, but what to give is decided in the heart of the individual.

Can an individual choose to give 10%? Certainly! But this isn't a legalistic mandate with the threat of hellfire attached to it. In fact, families of more meager income can pledge a lower percentage or amount. And those of greater income can give as much as 90% of their income should they desire. None are shut out and all are blessed by giving. The widow with only her mite isn't denied full fellowship because she can't afford to both tithe and pay for her medications.

Paul wrote that those who give bountifully will reap a bountiful reward. Those who give sparingly will receive sparingly...

2 Corinthians 9:6-10 English Standard Version (ESV)
6 The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work. 9 As it is written,
“He has distributed freely, he has given to the poor;
his righteousness endures forever.”
10 He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness.

So, the principle of blessing in accordance to sacrifice does apply here.

Most multi-million dollar charities and non-profit organizations function this way. Also, most television and radio ministries function this way. And most are more successful in maintaining their operations (statistically speaking) than the average church start-up that demands tithes.