Saved Without A Pastor?? - Page 23

1ofthechosen · #**221** 06-21-2018, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Brother . . .

The word pastor is NOT there. Nor is ANY word that is used in lieu of pastor elsewhere in the Bible. You added it, in spite of the scripture I posted rebuking adding to, or subtracting from the book of Revelation.

I refute the addition AND the assumption that this is a pastor referred to here. You are symbolizing a symbol, then assuming the symbol you symbolized is a symbol for something else. It is confusing just typing it out.

Did you read my example of clear-cut symbolism in my earlier post to you?

Angel defines by strong as "a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication a pastor" I added nothing its G32 Strongs Number but explain chapter 218-24. Who is this ":BUT UNTO YOU I SAY, and unto the rest in Thyatira." If I was adding something id have something to worry about, but it says the same thing about those trying to subtract from it so heed your own rebuke.

Apostolic1ness · #**222** 06-21-2018, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Brother . . .

The word pastor is NOT there. Nor is ANY word that is used in lieu of pastor elsewhere in the Bible. You added it, in spite of the scripture I posted rebuking adding to, or subtracting from the book of Revelation.

I refute the addition AND the assumption that this is a pastor referred to here. You are symbolizing a symbol, then assuming the symbol you symbolized is a symbol for something else. It is confusing just typing it out.

Did you read my example of clear-cut symbolism in my earlier post to you?

In the book of rev who is being referred to as the angel of the churches?

Tithesmeister · #**223** 06-21-2018, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Ok who are the sheep and who is the shepherd.

Lest I be guilty of leaving your question unanswered.

The sheep are the church.

There is no shepherd (singular) there are shepherds. Remember in the verse you are referring to. he calls them elders (plural).

1ofthechosen · #**224** 06-21-2018, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

In the book of rev who is being referred to as the angel of the churches?

Go read every example but Chapter 2:18-24 shows a distinction. Because a angelic being can't be compromising with false doctrine, and not be in sin. And it's not talking about John so who is it talking about when its says "but unto you I say"? Strongs concordance says plainly pastor or messenger. Apostolic1ness read it close and you tell me. I know your not biased against leadership.

All the Apostles besides John were dead at this point, I told him the NT was written in the times of the Apostles, but this and the book of Hebrews were written later so they convey the plan of having a pastor as we see clearly in Hebrews 13:7 giving the context for verse 17.

The definition of Pastor "Poimen" says enough in Ephesians 4:11 because it denotes authority.

1ofthechosen · #**225** 06-21-2018, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Lest I be guilty of leaving your question unanswered.

The sheep are the church.

There is no shepherd (singular) there are shepherds. Remember in the verse you are referring to. he calls them elders (plural).

Thats written to churches Peter is a Apostle A bishop according to Acts 1:20 bishopric is a word for Bishop. If Judas was one so is he.

Tithesmeister · #**226** 06-21-2018, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

In the book of rev who is being referred to as the angel of the churches?

I am not sure. The most probable answer is that they are heavenly beings, however, if I said that I know, I would be guilty of doing what I have said you're doing. Making a doctrine based on insufficient information. I don't want to do that.

1ofthechosen · #**227** 06-21-2018, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I am not sure. The most probable answer is that they are heavenly beings, however, if I said that I know, I would be guilty of doing what I have said you're doing. Making a doctrine based on insufficient information. I don't want to do that.

The text will explain it. It leaves no wonder for you. You are denying the obvious just like last time... Its alright simple fact is you cant be saved without a Pastor because you are outside of the body otherwise. The bible is plain there are those who have rule over you. Only in these modern days do we struggle with leadership. That's all the spirit of this age the mystery of iniquity works.

Apostolic1ness · #**228** 06-21-2018, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I am not sure. The most probable answer is that they are heavenly beings, however, if I said that I know, I would be guilty of doing what I have said you're doing. Making a doctrine based on insufficient information. I don't want to do that.

ok so lets use probability; is it more probable that an angel or heavenly being would have a necessity that a person write to them about problems in a church and how to correct it?
Or is it more probable that a person would need to be written to concerning problems in a church?
Is it more probable that an angel would relay the message written?
Or is it more probable that a person would relay the message written?

Tithesmeister · #**229** 06-21-2018, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Go read every example but Chapter 2:18-24 shows a distinction. Because a angelic being can't be compromising with false doctrine, and not be in sin. And it's not talking about John so who is it talking about when its says "but unto you I say"? Strongs concordance says plainly pastor or messenger.

So, by your own post here it could be a messenger and NOT a pastor?

Would that be accurate?

Please answer this question!

Is there a 50% chance that you are right?

And a 50% chance that you are wrong?

Would this be fair to say?

Is 50% close enough to establish doctrine?

This is not horseshoes or hand grenades we're talking about here!

Line upon line, line upon line, precept upon precept, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little, here a little . . .

Brother, if you are right, you are AT BEST hoping that you have a little, much less a little more. There is no line upon line, except in your imagination. The precept is fantasy. Come on back to reality. You'll sleep better at night. You are wanting this to be true SO badly that you are willing to settle for a 50% chance of a hint of being right?

And of course there is the following . . .

Are ALL messengers pastors?

Or were nearly ALL messengers NOT pastors?

Tell the truth, and stay in the church.

Then there is this . . .

Should I call you on the fact that my Strongs Concordance defines angel as used in this passage as a messenger; esp. an "angel" ; by implication a pastor:- angel, messenger.

You are very close to being deceptive here. You really seem to want to add to the book of Revelation. Be careful!

Tithesmeister · #**230** 06-21-2018, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

The text will explain it. It leaves no wonder for you. You are denying the obvious just like last time... Its alright simple fact is you cant be saved without a Pastor because you are outside of the body otherwise. The bible is plain there are those who have rule over you. Only in these modern days do we struggle with leadership. That's all the spirit of this age the mystery of iniquity works.

Oh, you make it sound so good. What is missing? Scripture.

Have you once given scripture that will stand alone and show what you are saying?

Who has quoted more relevant scripture here?

Me? Or the two of you?

It must be frustrating to have absolutely NO scripture to say what you are touting. Not one passage that includes the word pastor.

Meanwhile I have given multiple examples of the churches being overseen by a plurality of elders. Have I not?

Please answer the question.