Psychotropic Drugs in Religious Rituals

[Aquila]

Based on what is being presented in this thread, let's look at this.

Here's a mother giving her child medical cannabis treatments.

Is she sinning in doing this?

Should she be arrested and put in prison?

Are the positive effects of cannabis to be denied?

Should she be denied legal access?

So far, there's been a lot of moralist chest beating. Let's consider the implications of what is being said here in a real life circumstance.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Based on what is being presented in this thread, let's look at this.

Here's a mother giving her child medical cannabis treatments.

Is she sinning in doing this?

Should she be arrested and put in prison?

Are the positive effects of cannabis to be denied?

Should she be denied legal access?

So far, there's been a lot of moralist chest beating. Let's consider the implications of what is being said here in a real life circumstance.

This is what really makes me laugh. You cry about being misrepresented and then you swiftly turn around and misrepresent. Chris get honest. Get a Pastor, and Get Jesus.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think we can take it for granted that all of us are sharing our opinions and current understanding of whatever it is we are discussing.

But, you aren't giving us your opinion, you are arguing with us that what you are presenting is the truth. CANNABIS is a miracle which some Neanderthals of the old order hid from you tin foil hat wearers.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Duly noted. Yet, couldn't your experience with abusers of cannabis cause your opinion of using cannabis medically be jaded beyond a rational and balanced opinion?

Chris, this is what we expect coming from someone who knows ZERO of the culture. These people aren't hotboxing, they are users everyday, like any other user, be it cigarettes, vitamins, coffee in the morning. Wake up, light a dube, lunch smoke a dube, break smoke a dube. Others smoke a bowl in the morning and that's it. But the MIND is still effected. Richard Alpert Ram Dass, and Timothy Leary were smoking, and talking psychedelics since the 60s. i have spent my life with people who smoked since the 1950s, 1960s, saved and unsaved. Bro, only Jesus' Holy Ghost can turn it around, but those who never received the Holy Ghost are burnt, if not physically, definitely mentally, spiritually total circus train wrecks. Chris, you don't know what you are even talking about here.

Originally Posted by Aquila

It shouldn't matter if one was a prostitute, or Colonel Sanders, if they make a good point, it's a good point. If they point out evidence to their claim, that evidence deserves an evaluation. You seem to think that by slandering your opposition personally, you can label everything they say as being false. When in truth, that isn't true. That's why in a discussion like this, we should stay on the topic, not digress into critiquing the person. I'm sure we've all done enough in our past for us all to have no creditability.

If a prostitute is honest, and not playing some sort of game then bring her to the table for discussion. If Colonel Bernie Sanders wants to discuss the issues without trying to shock the monkey bring it on. But even those two jokers would come to an Apostolic Pentecostal Forum to discuss stupidity to get their audience to look at them with a sucking lemons face, with one raised eyebrow. Chris, the Prostitute and the Colonel would show more class on this forum then you have in the past. You got to admit that, you are a real Turkey sometimes. You know it, because you often set us up before you post one of your humdingers.

Originally Posted by Aquila

And your observances of me? On an internet forum? LOL Bro., you need to get out more. There's far more to a person than the silly things they might post on an internet forum.

Bro, then you need to sign off and get to the VA or find a pastor to pray with you. If there is more insanity then what you post here, then you need to get it together but skippy.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes, I'm willing to change or modify my position based on additional information and as the conversation continues. Part of this is because good points are made, sometimes it is because clarification is in order. Many times, a statement or position of mine is clarified, but you cling to the misunderstanding on purpose to distort the reality. That's you being dishonest. Not me.

But that's not what you are doing, you are pushing this, and we have already made our case. Yet, you are ignoring it, and continue to push pot like it is the second coming. We personally know more about it than you do. But, YouTubes seems to have enough garbage for you to lob at us and feel justified. Chris, if you want to smoke weed, go get you a card, you'll be more messed up in ten years now than you are today. I guarantee it.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Still Christian, still Oneness Apostolic. 29+ years.

Really?

Originally Posted by Aquila

Ummm. I've left three churches. Reasons included a blatant lie, the discovery of the mismanagement of funds, and just feeling unwelcomed. For the most part, each church was friendly enough. We trump that up to be more than it is? What ideas was I pushing for? What ideas of mine did they reject?

Please tell me, or admit you're making things up. I'm going to return to this. So, please answer.

I have no need or want to make things up, that's your job.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...31&postcount=1

Originally Posted by Aquila

Really? I've only taken short breaks when work takes me away, when I feel it's too heated, and when it gets boring. lol

Is this forum all you have in your life???

I have to applaud your one talent, misdirection and manipulation of a conversation. I made no mention about time spent here. Are you feeling guilty using your employer's time while posting? I was talking about how you disappear from a thread when you get caught in your own stupidity and leave until the coast is clear. Waiting for the offending post or comment to be buried. That's all. Still you are most deserving for having ability to manipulate and misrepresent what was actually posted to you. Bravo.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Having not been personally involved in drug culture, having seen how it has effected the lives of others, and having an open mind to medical advancements, I think that leaves me less jaded and biased than yourself, making me capable of seeing both the dangers and the benefits involved.

No, you are actually extremely blind to what Votive, 1ofthechosen and I are saying. That's because you just want to win this argument. Seeing the effect it has had on others? What effects on others did you see? Did you see Dead Heads healed? Did you see smoke outs in San Francisco and Amsterdam where people were healed?

Originally Posted by Aquila

Allow the discussing to evolve. Allow the clarification of my position to evolve so that you can actually understand what I'm saying. Don't lock onto a single statement, don't misconstrue what I mean, and cling to it. Allow me to clarify. For example, you got your panties in a bunch thinking I threatened suicide. I hope that upon my clarification you better understand what the statement was intended to imply.

Chris, I'm telling you, you must be bipolar, because the person you are describing isn't you. Chris, because if it were you we would have no problems.

Originally Posted by Aquila

A lot of the medical advancements we've seen in the last 20 years weren't available long ago.

Ground Control To Major Tom!!!!

20 Years Ago There WAS WEED!!!

My lands, you talk about Reefer like you discovered nanobots. Bro, people been smoking weed before you were born jack. You keep beating this tin drum like you discovered rubber. People been smoking dubes and nothing was happening. I had friends back in the 70s who smoke reefer for their vision. Bro, they saw worse when they were smoking. Chris, you want to smoke weed, smoke it. Just don't try to peddle your baloney.

Originally Posted by Aquila

We had no idea how cannabis effected the endocannabinoid system to help better regulate the biochemistry of the brain. We know that now, Jim.

TO BE CONTINUED...

No you have no idea Chris, you.

The rest of us know.

Chris seek ye a PASTOR

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

This is what really makes me laugh. You cry about being misrepresented and then you swiftly turn around and misrepresent. Chris get honest. Get a Pastor, and Get Jesus.

I'm not crying. Nor am I trying to misrepresent.

Here's a mother giving her child medical cannabis treatments.

Is this a sin?

Should she be arrested and put in prison?

Are the positive effects of cannabis to be denied?

Should she be denied legal access?

By answering the questions we can have a genuine expression of where we stand. And, we might find ourselves in agreement.

Please answer the questions.

Thanks.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I was talking about how you disappear from a thread when you get caught in your own stupidity and leave until the coast is clear.

No I don't. I spend plenty of time wading through my own stupidity. lol

No, you are actually extremely blind to what Votive, 1ofthechosen and I are saying. That's because you just want to win this argument. Seeing the effect it has had on others? What effects on others did you see? Did you see Dead Heads healed? Did you see smoke outs in San Francisco and Amsterdam where people were healed?

No, I duly acknowledged the concerns you and others have presented. And I agree. However, the examples given represent the "abuse" of the substance, not the medicinal application of the substance. Everything said about cannabis ruining lives can be said of sex, food, alcohol, and even religion itself. But in each case, only the abuse of cannabis, sex, food, alcohol, and religion are being cited. I'm talking about the medicinal value, the therapeutic value. It is that element of the discussion that you are refusing to even consider. To prove my point, I'll ask again....

Here's a video of a mother giving her child medical cannabis treatments.

Is this a sin?

Should she be arrested and put in prison?

Are the positive effects of cannabis to be denied?

Should she be denied legal access?

Is this woman just another "burn out"?

By answering these questions we can have a genuine expression of where we stand. And, we might find ourselves in agreement.

Please answer the questions.

If you dodge these questions, you'll only prove my point.

[Aquila]

Here's a video of a vet who take cannabis to relieve symptoms of PTSD.

Is this a sin?

Should he be arrested and put in prison?

Are the positive effects of cannabis to be denied?

Should he be denied legal access?

Is this guy just another "burn out"?

[Aquila]

Here's a video of an ex-cop with Parkinson's Disease. He takes cannabis medicinally.

Is this a sin?

Should he be arrested and put in prison?

Are the positive effects of cannabis to be denied?

Should he be denied legal access?

Is this ex-cop just another "burn out"?

[n david]

"Should he be arrested and put in prison?" What is the law? Is there a law against it? Did he break the law? If so, then yes.

"Are the positive effects of cannabis to be denied?" Doctors used to believe bloodletting was the cure to all ills. Your advocating of weed and how it's some miracle drug reminds me of some of these MLM schemes in which the drink or pill is claimed to cure a plethora of ills. "Use this product and it will lower cholesterol, cure diabetes, indigestion, gout, kidney stones, cataracts, athletes foot, joint pain, arthritis, flu, the common cold, allergies and hay fever, allergic reactions and it will cure cancer!" I don't deny the claim that medical weed has helped relieve pain in much the same way as codeine has.

"Should he be denied legal access?" He can move to CA or CO or some other state which allows medical weed.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

"Should he be arrested and put in prison?" What is the law? Is there a law against it? Did he break the law? If so, then yes.

I can agree with that. And if the people of a given state wish to change the laws, there's a process.

"Are the positive effects of cannabis to be denied?" Doctors used to believe bloodletting was the cure to all ills. Your advocating of weed and how it's some miracle drug reminds me of some of these MLM schemes in which the drink or pill is claimed to cure a plethora of ills. "Use this product and it will lower cholesterol, cure diabetes, indigestion, gout, kidney stones, cataracts, athletes foot, joint pain, arthritis, flu, the common cold, allergies and hay fever, allergic reactions and it will cure cancer!" I don't deny the claim that medical weed has helped relieve pain in much the same way as codeine has.

That's a good starting point. We can agree that it does help those in pain. But what about symptoms relating to PTSD, Parkinson's, Epilepsy, etc.?

"Should he be denied legal access?" He can move to CA or CO or some other state which allows medical weed.

Again, we agree. And if citizens of a given state wish to change the laws, there is a process.

I noticed that you didn't answer the "sin" question. Can you elaborate on why? Or are you still contemplating the issue?

[n david]

"Is this a sin?"

My thoughts and interpretations, the latter of which may not be right. EB can correct me if I'm off.

First, it is sin if using it causes a law to be broken.

Second, secular society will do what they will regardless and without considering whether something is sinful or not. This is why the body of Christ (the church) shouldn't allow society to influence the church, but rather should work to try and influence society.

Third, Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 6:12, "All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any."

In the first part of the verse, Paul says all things are lawful but all things aren't expedient; or all things are lawful, but not a means to an end. In the second part, Paul writes in contrast: all things are lawful, but I won't be brought under the power of any."

It may be that in the near future, medical weed is legal and lawful to use. Currently, medical weed is primarily used to treat pain. That being said, I will address it as I would other pain medication.

Years ago, I had an issue for which the Dr prescribed me oxy for the pain. He gave me a large quantity with a refill available. My pain left after a few days, but I used the entire amount plus the refill because I became addicted to them. Since then, I refuse to take anything stronger than Ibuprofen or Tylenol.

To be clear, all pain medication does is trick the brain into believing you don't have pain. None actually heal or do anything to what is causing the pain. What does happen is the person in pain becomes reliant upon the medication to relieve their pain.

This is where, IMO, medical weed (and opioids) differ from other medications. The weed isn't healing the underlying issue. It's simply tricking the brain into believing that for a few hours the body is better, when it really isn't. The result is that a person becomes dependent on weed to mask their pain which doesn't do anything to the underlying cause.

Even with treating PTSD, epilepsy and Parkinson's, weed only masks the issue for a short time. It isn't curing the underlying cause.

Paul said, all things are lawful, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Medical weed may be legal soon, but even so, it is not expedient (means to an end, it only tricks the brain) nor should any Christian allow themselves to be brought under the power of it.

Finally, there's the cause and effect. The NYC Police (at one time) used a theory in policing called the "Broken windows" theory. This theory in summary: if police go after minor offenses (vandalism, etc) it will deter more serious crimes.

James Q. Wilson and George L. Kelling introduced the theory in the 80s. They wrote:

"Consider a building with a few broken windows. If the windows are not repaired, the tendency is for vandals to break a few more windows. Eventually, they may even break into the building, and if it's unoccupied, perhaps become squatters or light fires inside.

Or consider a pavement. Some litter accumulates. Soon, more litter accumulates. Eventually, people even start leaving bags of refuse from take-out restaurants there or even break into cars."

In essence, it's about cause and effect. What begins small likely leads to more and bigger things.

Some Christians will attempt to rationalize and justify anything. In their attempts rationalize things, many times they don't consider the broken windows theory. They believe they can rationalize something and it will only be that. They don't take into consideration what their rationalization can cause.

There are things of which Christians should not partake, if nothing but because of the stigma and stereotype it brings.