Demons and the believer

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Was the prince of this age (the one Jesus and His apostles were walking around in) judged? If so, what was the judgement?

What do you mean? The prince of the power of the air? "the atmospheric region"by definition. Yea he was judged but just as with what took place in the garden they didn't die instantly, the clock has started and "he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by berkeley

Her eyes weren’t opened until her husband ate

He doesn't say that. It just says "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. [7] And the eyes of them both were opened." But it's not specific on whether hers were first or not. That could mean either way. She had Dominion too according to Genesis 1:26-27"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. [27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." At the end of the verse he let's you know who them were who had Dominion, "male and female created He them."

She sinned but Adam willfully sinned and in the Bible, it talks about the difference. But she still sinned, but Adam chose her over God, while she was deceived; Adam chose her and she had already lost her Dominion. He then gave his away, and the rest is history. Unless youve got the Holy Ghost, the devil still has Dominion over you. Although "he knows he has a short time" and the clock is ticking!

[berkeley]

Eyes opened... after Adam ate. You quoted it. How was Eve spiritually dead after she ate?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Bro the first murderer was Satan the serpent in the garden. In trying to steal their Dominion he lied to her got her to eat and commit sin. In that he murdered her, and in turn all of mankind. No he didn't murder her physically or us physically but spiritually yes. So what happened in the spiritual, through Cain took place in the physical.

Cain was the first one to kill anyone physically, but Satan had already caused it to take place in the spiritual. He became the father of it and lies, sin, and iniquity. Whatever takes place in the natural has to go forth first in the spiritual.

That's the whole purposes of the seals in the book of Revelations that is taking place In the Spiritual, but then when Trumpets take place that's when they are being shed forth.

It's all throughout the Old Testament to especially the prophets.

You are reading your Bible with a preconceived viewpoint in place, that cannot be derived solely from the Bible itself.

Cain was a murderer from the beginning, and the Rabbins were following in his footsteps. They were not trying to deceive Jesus by tempting Him to disobey God, they were plotting His death because He, like Abel, was righteous and they, like Cain, were not.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You are reading your Bible with a preconceived viewpoint in place, that cannot be derived solely from the Bible itself.

Cain was a murderer from the beginning, and the Rabbins were following in his footsteps. They were not trying to deceive Jesus by tempting Him to disobey God, they were plotting His death because He, like Abel, was righteous and they, like Cain, were not.

What im speaking of comes out if the prayer room and lines up with the Word of God. I didn't receive this of man. John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Says nothing about Cain, nor was he being referenced. But it does say this explicitly about the devil.

Not only did he murder all mankind through deception until Jesus provided a perfect sacrifice and brought salvation. He also murdered the other 1/3 of the Angels that fell with him it talks about in Revelation 12:3-4.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by berkeley

Eyes opened... after Adam ate. You quoted it. How was Eve spiritually dead after she ate?

It's not specific it didn't say that in any order. You are seeing what you want to see.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

It's not specific it didn't say that in any order. You are seeing what you want to see.

You said she was killed spiritually by the serpent. I’m seeing what’s in the text. Her eyes were opened after Adam ate.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by berkeley

You said she was killed spiritually by the serpent. I’m seeing what’s in the text. Her eyes were opened after Adam ate.

It's not clear it just mentions it after they both ate. But let me ask you this then. Do you believe if Adam didn't eat of it, that Eve wouldn't have still sinned? It was the sin that opened up their eyes. God told them not to eat of thar tree. Whether the info came second hand or straight from the horses mouth it was a known law and regulation. So despite all of that she still would've been in sin because of the righteousness of God. He can't bend the rules, although He can provide a way back. So If she was the only one that sinned her eyes would've been opened regardless, alone. Do to the consequences of her action. So though the Bible says it after they both ate, it didn't just befall them only, because Adam ate, so both their eyes were opened. The woman played a part too. Ar the second she sinned her eyes were open also. Just they both became opened the second Adam followed with her. It was sin that opened their eyes unto good and evil, because they partook of it.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

What im speaking of comes out if the prayer room and lines up with the Word of God. I didn't receive this of man. John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Says nothing about Cain, nor was he being referenced. But it does say this explicitly about the devil.

Not only did he murder all mankind through deception until Jesus provided a perfect sacrifice and brought salvation. He also murdered the other 1/3 of the Angels that fell with him it talks about in Revelation 12:3-4.

So, you have divine revelation that is not actually stated in the Bible? Sorry, but I don't go by anyone's divine revelation, I have a more sure word (2 Peter 1:19).

You are eisegeting, reading into the text things that are not there. I understand that what is being presented to you is contrary to the beliefs you have, and therefore you have a hard time understanding something other than what you currently hold. To each his own. I have no sacred cows and no traditions to defend except what I see written in the Word.

The origin and nature and mechanism of sin is spelled out quite explicitly in the Bible, and that's what I believe. The terms devil and satan are used for various things and various people, so I believe that. The Bible teaches by both precept and example that we are not running around swatting invisible demon-flies, but are engaged in a spiritual war between the Kingdom (dominion, RULE) of Christ and the kingdoms of men and their vain philosophies. Heathen gods are demons, and they are also NOTHING. That informs my understanding of these things.

People can get all sorts of things "in the prayer room" but if it does not agree with the Scripture then it's all just last night's pizza sauce.

[votivesoul]

The real spiritual battle takes place in the soul (1 Peter 2:11), through carnal temptations internally derived through the law of sin in our members (Romans 7:23), generating lusts untold if or when we have not been crucified with Christ (James 1:12-16, Galatians 5:24).

The war that is not against flesh and blood, then, is simply an indication that the battle is not one you're going to wage with your physical body, because it's a spiritual war happening deep within your innermost being.

This idea that "flesh and blood" is merely a metonym for the human race isn't accurate. We do wrestle against other humans, but not (hopefully) in any physical way. Almost all of our battles, large and small, have to do with dealing with the fallen race of man, ourselves included in that mix. We are urged to pray for our enemies. Who are they? Evil spirits or human people? We are commanded to forgive our enemies. Who are they? Evil spirits or human people.

This idea that the Devil is the only real enemy in the world, and that no humans, per se, are enemies to the church, isn't accurate. Alexander the Silversmith did Paul much evil. Alex was an enemy to Paul and the Apostolic mission of Christ (2 Timothy 4:14). The Galatians had become Paul's enemies simply because he had told them the truth (Galatians 4:6). At the end of the Apocalypse, the Devil doesn't simply wage war against God all by his lonesome (Revelation 20:7-8). After God smokes them all, and they stand in their judgment later in the chapter, do you suppose "the devil made me do it" is going to work with Jesus? No, these people were more than happy to try and swarm the Lord and His Bride, because they are enemies to God's people.

So are they whose gods are their bellies (Philippians 3:18-19). The Psalms are replete with references to human adversaries constantly working against the people of God, or of David the King, specifically (and so, prophetically of the Son of David).

The armor of God, and their symbolic representations, therefore, are for the benefit of your soul (e.g. salvation, righteousness, truth, peace, faith). These things are designed to protect and save you, first and foremost, from yourself, when otherwise left to your carnal devices.

But also, they protect and save you from the carnal devices of others who would who try and lay claim to you, to make ownership or merchandise of you, so as to try and get you to blaspheme and renounce Christ, just like all of the 1st to 3rd century persecutions under the auspices of Rome were designed to get Christian believers to include the Caesar in their worship.

When God saves someone, Christ's name is written in blood on his or her adoption papers. God alone owns you as His (1 Corinthians 6:20). This "bought with a price" concept speaks to possession. God OWNS you. If so, no one else can lay claim to you, not even you, yourself.

So, no Christian is ever possessed by anything or anyone other than the Lord Himself, or they are not a Christian.

As far as oppression goes, that only occurs when a saint has been living like a sinner, walking in condemnation and darkness, not repenting and getting right, rejecting sobriety and being vigilant. Such things are obvious indications that a person is allowing the war for their soul to be won against them, through the flesh. You cannot be oppressed by any power whatsoever, unless that power is more powerful than you are, and if you think the devil is more powerful than you and the Holy One living in you, you are walking in a level of defeat and humiliation that is beneath you as the Redeemed of the Lord. You are supposed to be sitting in heavenly places with Christ Jesus (Ephesians 1:3 and 2:6).

Evil spirits don't wander around Christ's throne looking to snatch away God's kids from off His lap. You have to wander off from the shadow of God's wings for that to happen.

Now, I will say that sometimes, as a matter of testing, of the trials God desires we go through and pass, he may permit us an opportunity to encounter an evil spirit or two or ten along the way. But the goal there isn't to let the devil overpower us and make us cave into its whims, but to strengthen us and help us learn something we might not otherwise be able to understand. Otherwise, or rather, apart from that, it's 1 John 5:18,

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

If you are not sinning, and are begotten of God, and are keeping yourself, no evil spirit can touch you.