2 Peter 3

[Michael The Disciple]

Why didn't Peter inform them that it wasn't going to happen during their time? That all they had to do is endure until their death where they would fall asleep? When they would wake up would be a better day.

Peter was like the rest of us. He didn't know the day or the hour of Christs coming. He believed it to be soon as anyone in a given generation should.

Yet he allowed for the fact it could be a long time from our perspective, thus his statement about 1000 years being a day or a day being 1000 years.

If one dies before Christ comes, yes they will awake to a new and better day at the resurrection!

[Michael The Disciple]

Dom

2 Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.This isn't speaking of a second advent, because these individuals are "wicked scoffers" are Judeans who were mocking the Christians about Messiah.

Woops! So Peter in your opinion is NOT writing to the saints to encourage them not to give up on the promise of his coming?


You seem to be saying the epistle Peter wrote was written to unbelieving Jews? Not to the saints? It would seem to me his teaching would be irrelevant to unbelievers, and that his point is to encourage the believers who were still expecting Jesus to come..

Number 1, the Judeans Christians were dealing with Judeans who mainly didn't believe Jesus was the Christ. So, when the first century Judean Christians would inform their fellow Judeans about a second advent, they didn't even believe that Jesus was the first advent.

These Judeans would of also know that Genesis 8:21 said that GOD would not curse the earth anymore for man's sake, that every living thing would suffer because of man. God would never destroy all life (the creatures) other than man anymore. Genesis 9:11 speaks of God's promise to not destroy all flesh with a flood. Doesn't say He would destroy it with any other means?

Well in this very letter we are discussing he is warning his audience that God IS going to destroy the Earth again. Thats one of his main points. As it was in Noahs time it will not be destroyed in the sense of no flesh being left alive. Jesus will RESTORE the Earth that he has smitten.

[Michael The Disciple]

No, the first mention must be followed, and in Genesis 8:21 the Judeans that Peter is speaking to understood that GOD wouldn't destroy everything because it doesn't motivate man to do anything. Then one might say well, it is over, wicked man is wiped out?

I believe the threats of judgment and destruction DO motivate man to do things. Not everyone of course but some. Jesus preached a lot of judgment in his ministry.

Peter believed the lines he wrote about judgment and destruction WOULD motivate his audience.

He says after giving them such a warning:

2 Peter 3:11-12

11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat

Again, the comfort would of been focused on going to sleep in the grave with the fathers. Therefore in awakening the storm would be passed.

The resurrection of the dead is certainly the blessed hope. But itself is connected to the COMING of Jesus.

1 Thess 4:13-18

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

[Michael The Disciple]

The wicked were the ORIGINAL Judeans who refused to hold faithful to the law, who used the temple as a talisman, who rejected the son of the vineyard, murdering all the Master of the vineyard sent, but sealing their fate by murdering His only aire.

So in your opinion Peters second letter has no relevance for TODAYS BELIEVERS?

There is no wicked around today that are taunting Christians by saying "where is the promise of his coming?

[Michael The Disciple]

Where does Peter indicate that he and his readers would not see these events? 1,000 years are but a day? The promise of His coming, isn't the second advent, but the first advent. Peter is speaking to Judeans who not only doubted a second advent, but a first, because they didn't believe that JESUS was the Christ. Why would they even entertain a return if they didn't even believe He arrived?

Peter said he was going to die. He knew this was going to happen. He said the Lord showed him. On the other hand he does NOT tell his readers they would not see the coming of Christ. It was in play for them.

They were supposed to, while hoping it would be soon, remember that it might still be a long time. That is the crux of his message to the saints.

You say 2nd Peter is NOT the coming of Jesus like a thief for his people. Rather it is somehow his first coming to unbelievers. If so they will be defeated and judged by Jesus when he comes.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Will the earth be destroyed by fire?

The world order of Noah's day was destroyed by water, the earth itself was not destroyed. Society was wiped out, but the physical earth itself wasn't obliterated.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The world order of Noah's day was destroyed by water, the earth itself was not destroyed. Society was wiped out, but the physical earth itself wasn't obliterated.

Yes

[Amanah]

For those who see the "new heaven and new earth" as the "new covenant," will there be a cutoff date for the earth?

People are destroying the earth, will be even be habitable in 100 years?

Or do you see terra firma continuing indefinitely?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Amanah

For those who see the "new heaven and new earth" as the "new covenant," will there be a cutoff date for the earth?

People are destroying the earth, will be even be habitable in 100 years?

Or do you see terra firma continuing indefinitely?

I see no worries in 100 years. I disbelieve climate change, etc. The world, of all things, always goes on with some apocalytpic threat and warning in its fake politicing. In the 70's it was the lie of the energy crisis.

I am not sure if there will be a physical end of the earth, or e revamping, or whatever. But there is an end of the way of things as we know it, with mortality ending and a definite point when sinners are gone along with the devil and sin into the lake of fire..

[Esaias]

2 Peter 3:3-7 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, (4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. (5) For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: (6) Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (7) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


Psalms 50:1-6 A Psalm of Asaph. The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof. (2) Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined. (3) Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. (4) He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people. (5) Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. (6) And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself. Selah.

I do not believe the scoffers are necessarily scoffing at either the second or the first advent, but rather are scoffing at promised Divine Judgment. The contrast is between the old world order being destroyed by the Flood, and the then-current world order being destroyed by fire, as the result of Divine Judgment. "The promise of His coming" has to do with the visitation of God in Judgment destroying the world order, not necessarily either the first or second coming of Christ. Of course, whatever is connected to the visitation of Divine Judgment would be included in "His Coming", but again I do not think the apostle is SPECIFICALLY referring to people SPECIFICALLY scoffing at any particular coming of the Messiah, per se. Rather, they are going to be scoffing at the nearness of Divine Judgment.

The reason they scoff is because "all things continue" as they have been "since the fathers fell asleep." The fathers is a Hebraism for the Patriarchs: Noah, Shem, Eber, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, etc., and the early generations of Israelites. In other words, everything has remained since the Flood and there has been no world destroying cataclysmic Judgment. The scoffers are willingly ignorant of the fact that the word of judgment which brought the Flood will also bring a fire.

Not that there is a text in Genesis speaking of a fiery judgment, but rather that as demonstrated in the Flood it is the intention of God to judge sin and sinful man, so as to cleanse the earth from wickedness. No more to be by a flood implies either that God would never again judge the earth at all, OR that He would judge the earth by a different means.

The heavens and earth were not literally obliterated by the Flood, nor shall they be literally obliterated by fire. I could be wrong, we might all be wrong, but simply going by the Bible's own statements about these subjects, I have to conclude that the destruction is not of material reality itself, but of ungodly men (2 Peter 3:7, quoted above).

The idea is that the heavens and earth which are now are "kept in store, reserved" to that Judgment. This is the same type of language used by the apostle in reference to the ungodly:

2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

The idea is that the wicked appear to be just continuing on with no end in sight, but the saints are encouraged and reminded that the judgment of the wicked is inevitable, howsoever long it may seem to be delayed:

Psalms 37:7-11 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass. (8) Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil. (9) For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. (10) For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. (11) But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Psalms 37:34-36 Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it. (35) I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree. (36) Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.

Peter is expressing the same concept, that though God's Judgment seems to tarry, that is, seems to be delayed, yet eventually it will come to pass, Judgment will certainly come, and the wicked shall be destroyed.

The "thousand years are as a day" passage is pointing out that we and God often view time differently. What seems like an awful long time for us is nothing to God. Thus, man's 70 years (80 if he is strong), which is a good long life for the average human, is really just a passing vapour barely worth mentioning in the grand scheme of things:

2 Peter 3:8-9 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

What men count as delay, or slackness, is in reality longsuffering or patience on God's part. The purpose of God's longsuffering (patience) is that He is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." Some have applied this to all mankind, but I think the context is clearly in favour of being applied to the saints, for he says "God... is longsuffering to us-ward." "Us" being the elect. God is saving His people, and that requires patience on His part, which foolish men interpret as slackness or apathy or unwarranted delay by God.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

This is clearly the same event as described earlier in which the world-order will be destroyed by fire. Thus, the event of verse 4, and of verse 7, are the same as here in verse 10. The phrase "day of the Lord" however throws people off, because they think there is only one event in all history which is "the day of the Lord". The truth is, the Bible speaks of numerous different judgments, as "the day of the Lord". The day of the Lord is the time of visitation in judgment, whereby God is glorified. My thread "The Son of Man" in both the Fellowship Hall and in the Apostolic Articles section details the Bible uses of the phrase "day of the Lord" as a common, Scriptural term for Divine Judgments of various types, in various places, and at various times. In other words', there is no single one "day of the Lord", any time the Lord executes His role as Judge is "the day of the Lord", according to the Biblical usage of the phrase.

In any event, this "day of the Lord" is the day in which the world-order will be destroyed by fire as opposed to water, and will occur simultaneously with the "judgment and perdition of ungodly men".

2 Peter 3:11-12 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, (12) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

I want to focus on that phrase, "hasting unto the coming of the day of God". Here it is in Greek:

σπεύδοντας τὴν παρουσίαν τῆς τοῦ Θεοῦ ἡμέρας

Here is Green's Literal translation:

2Pe 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the Day of God, through which the heavens having been set afire will be dissolved; and burning, the elements will melt?

The Apostolic Bible Polyglot (English) reads thus:

2Pe 3:12 expecting and hastening the arrival of the day of God, by which the heavens being set on fire shall be loosed, and the elements being destroyed by fire shall melt away?

The text literally says the saints, knowing what's coming, ought to be looking for (anticipating) AND HASTENING THE ARRIVAL OF THE DAY. That is, the saints are literally involved in some manner with bringing the arrival of the Day of God, we are supposed to be doing something(s) that actually hastens or brings closer this Day of Divine Judgment in which evil is destroyed and in which righteousness is the norm, not the exception.

In other words, the TIME of this Day of Judgment is conditional in some sense upon the activity of the saints.