2 Peter 3

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You're on the right track. I believe there is a Biblical "system of eschatology", but to find it we have to first, drop whatever hand me down borrowed isms we've been exposed to and then second, start at Genesis and just let the Word teach us all about it.

Everybody wants to start at the end, Revelation, probably the most complicated book of the Bible. You can't build a house by beginning with the interior decorating, you have to have a good foundation FIRST.

I agree here I believe this is a 100 % correct.

[Michael The Disciple]

Part 2 Paul and the day of the Lord.

Let us refresh our memory. Jesus is BOTH Lord and Christ.

Acts 2:36

36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Now Paul writes again to the saints in Thessalonica.

2 Thess 1:7-

7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Here Paul comforts the saints reminding them there is a day coming when they will find rest from their persecutions and tribulations. A day in which also wicked people will be judged.

Exactly THREE VERSES LATER he continues his message concerning THAT DAY.

2 Thess 2:1-

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Paul specifies the day he refers to as the DAY OF CHRIST. Now some versions of scripture remove the word Christ and replace it with LORD.

In context it makes no difference at all. Jesus is BOTH Lord and Christ! See Acts 2:36

To Paul there was no confusion about the day of the Lord and its meaning. He refers to it EIGHT TIMES at least in his writings with the understanding that it is the day when Jesus is revealed/comes from Heaven and gathers his people to himself.

He continues.

Verses 3-5

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

If some go off at the phrase "day of the Lord" it is because they are not applying it like the apostle applied it.

Paul was laser focused on its meaning. It meant the day when Jesus comes......along with.....judgment to the nations.

Modern readers "go off " IMO when they dont allow the APOSTLES of Christ to teach THEIR UNDERSTANDING (given by Jesus Acts 1:3) of the day of the Lord.

End of part 2

[Michael The Disciple]

Part 3...Peter and the day of the Lord.

Several times in his first epistle Peter writes of Christ coming.

1 Peter 1:7-9

7That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 8Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Verse 13

13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Chapter 4:12-13

12Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: 13But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

Chapter 5:3-4

3Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. 4And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

So it is not unusual that in his next epistle he reinforces what he already said.

2 Peter 3:3-4

3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

He himself taught the coming of Jesus for the saints. The mockers who resisted the message looked across time and said to the saints, "So you STILL think Jesus is coming"!

Their attack was that the Fathers had fallen asleep just like everyone else from the beginning. So they were just wasting their lives serving God.

Peter reminds them of the days of Noah and the cataclysmic judgment of the earth in his day. No doubt TO HIM it is in THIS CONTEXT.

Luke 17:

24For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. 25But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. 26And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

When Peter thought of Noahs day he was reminded what the Lord Jesus said. How his coming would be spectacular as lightning filling the sky! And that Jesus called that coming HIS DAY

HIS DAY! The day of the Lord Jesus Christ!

The same day Paul wrote of at least 8 times declaring it as the day Christ comes for the Church and also brings judgment to the earth.

End of part 3

[Michael The Disciple]

Peter And The Day Of The Lord...Part 4

2 Peter 3:8-9

8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Note that Peter DOES NOT assure them Jesus will come in their lifetime. Not at all. Instead he teaches them about the difference between Gods timing and their own. While they or us as the case may be, could be on the verge of losing hope that Jesus will come EVER come again our faith must be in context of Gods time rather than our own.

After all in his time Jesus has only left the earth TWO DAYS AGO! That is the message Peter gave his audience! Be patient. We can live in expectation of his coming, knowing it is sure.

So according to Peter the lifetimes of MANY GENERATIONS could possibly come and go before the Lord comes. This definitely refutes the error of those who restrict the coming of Jesus to the generation prior to 70ad.

Peter said he is longsuffering to the ELECT that they might be saved. The ELECT were not by any means ONLY to be found of disciples in the first century!

[Michael The Disciple]

Peter And The Day Of The Lord...Part 5

2 Peter 3:10

10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Was the day of the Lord something different with Peter than it was with Paul than it was with Jesus? If Jesus was the teacher I believe Peter and Paul were his students and understood the same thing.

I showed in part 2 of this study (please go back and read carefully) at least 8 times where Paul refers to the day of the Lord Jesus Christ. Any Oneness believer should have no problem seeing that Jesus is BOTH...Lord and Christ. Acts 2:36

Jesus is THE LORD. The day of THE LORD is his day. The day when he comes for his people.

When Jesus referred to his coming as like a "thief in the night" there was specific context.

He had just taught the apostles about the DAY of his coming.

Matt 24:29-31

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Now in relation to this post tribulation coming of Jesus let us find the source of his warning about THAT DAY coming like a thief.

Verse 42-44

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

So when Peter wrote of the day of the Lord coming like a thief the context was after the tribulation of those days.

This is what Peter was writing to his audience. This is what he was encouraging them to keep believing. When it did come it would be the time he would GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECTand bring judgment to the earth.

[Michael The Disciple]

Peter And The Day Of The Lord....Part 6

Now Peter had mentioned the day of the Lord in the beginning of his ministry.

Acts 2:20

20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

It is abundantly clear from what we have seen in this study the day of the Lord is the day he comes. Peter taught at the beginning the sun would be turned to darkness and the moon to blood BEFORE the day of the Lord comes.

Now my main point in the study till now has been simply to prove that the day of the Lord refers to the coming of Jesus for the saints. Why did Peter connect the cataclysmic events of the sun being darkened and the moon turning to blood with the day of the Lord?

Is it not because thats exactly the way Jesus had taught him?

Peter was there when Jesus said:

Matt 24:29-31

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So Peter said what he said in Acts 2:20 because of what Jesus said in Matt 24:29-31

Now it makes sense.

2 Peter 3:

11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

To Peter, Paul and the first century disciples the day of the Lord was the same as the day of God. Why? Because Jesus was BOTH.

Read John 20:28

And Thomas answered and said to him "My Lord and My God".



The day of his coming would be surrounded by great celestial events. His people are to be LOOKING FOR AND HASTENING TO the coming of this day.

The reason they long for it is because first they will get to meet Jesus Christ in the air and be with him forever! And then this present earth which will have been battered into destruction by the great judgments it has received will be renewed.

Paul writes:

Romans 8:19-23

19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

So the earth wont just be destroyed in a total sense. The imagery presents a terrifying picture of the end of the present age "order" of whats happening on earth. And yet leaves us with the hope that Christ and his saints will out of the destruction thereof build a brand new one wherein dwells righteousness!

[Michael The Disciple]

That's my point, which you missed. YOU have imported a man made interpretation through which you read the NT, exactly like trinitarians do. Instead of allowing the whole Bible to TELL YOU what the terms and phrases mean.

You never read what I typed. I typed what "day of the Lord" and "day of Christ" meant as defined by Paul in EIGHT occurences.

For the benefit of anyone who missed them. All these verses are concerning the coming of Jesus for his saints. Some also refer to his judgment against the wicked at his coming.


1 Cor. 1:7

7So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Pauls point here is the day of the LORD Jesus Christ. The day when he will come for the saints.

2 Cor. 1:13-4

13For we write none other things unto you, than what ye read or acknowledge; and I trust ye shall acknowledge even to the end; 14As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are ours in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Again he points the Corinthians to "the end" which to him is the DAY OF THE LORD JESUS.

So to Paul the day of the Lord means both "the end" of the present age or "order" and the coming of Jesus.

Philippians 1:6

6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Phil. 1:9-10

9And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;

Phil. 2:16

16Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

Three times Paul mentions the "day of Christ" as the day of HIS COMING for the saints just to this one Church at Philippi. If you mentioned the day of the Lord to those disciples TO THEM you would have been talking about the time when Jesus was coming FOR THEM!

But....is Paul done yet teaching about the coming day of the Lord Jesus?

To the Thessalonians he writes:

1 Thess 4:15-17

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Paul here describes the personal coming of Jesus to receive his people to himself. The event in our time commonly called the rapture. What some fail to see is that Paul just TWO VERSES LATER calls this the DAY OF THE LORD!

1 Thess 5:1-3



1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

So the apostle Paul did NOT separate the day of the Lord from the coming judgment. He packages them together. The day of the Lord TO HIM being that which he just described TWO VERSES EARLIER.....even the coming of Christ for the saints and judgment on those who were sleeping spiritually.

Part 2 Paul and the day of the Lord.

Let us refresh our memory. Jesus is BOTH Lord and Christ.

Acts 2:36

36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Now Paul writes again to the saints in Thessalonica.

2 Thess 1:7-

7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Here Paul comforts the saints reminding them there is a day coming when they will find rest from their persecutions and tribulations. A day in which also wicked people will be judged.

Exactly THREE VERSES LATER he continues his message concerning THAT DAY.

2 Thess 2:1-

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Paul specifies the day he refers to as the DAY OF CHRIST. Now some versions of scripture remove the word Christ and replace it with LORD.

In context it makes no difference at all. Jesus is BOTH Lord and Christ! See Acts 2:36

To Paul there was no confusion about the day of the Lord and its meaning. He refers to it EIGHT TIMES at least in his writings with the understanding that it is the day when Jesus is revealed/comes from Heaven and gathers his people to himself.

He continues.

Verses 3-5

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

If some go off at the phrase "day of the Lord" it is because they are not applying it like the apostle applied it.

Paul was laser focused on its meaning. It meant the day when Jesus comes......along with.....judgment to the nations.

Modern readers "go off " IMO when they dont allow the APOSTLES of Christ to teach THEIR UNDERSTANDING (given by Jesus Acts 1:3) of the day of the Lord.

End of part 2

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

You never read what I typed. I typed what "day of the Lord" and "day of Christ" meant as defined by Paul in EIGHT occurences.

The problem is, we are discussing Peter's use of the term along with his clear contextual references (including to Psalm 50, which I pointed out).

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The problem is, we are discussing Peter's use of the term along with his clear contextual references (including to Psalm 50, which I pointed out).

The problem seems to be you dont think Paul and Peter are referring to the SAME EVENT when both of them write of the day of the Lord coming like a thief.

What do we have? Two apostles of Jesus teaching two differing things? Or could it be they both are relaying to us what Jesus taught them?

The Old Testament is full of great truths. Jesus ordained apostles to teach us these things. If we follow THEIR UNDERSTANDING of these great truths we will do well.

The things you are pointing out about "comings of the Lord in judgment"are well taken on my end. My contention is that if we allow Jesus and the apostles to direct our thinking about the topic of the "day of the Lord" we wont be led astray.

Jesus knew the Old Testament perfectly, being it's author.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The problem seems to be you dont think Paul and Peter are referring to the SAME EVENT when both of them write of the day of the Lord coming like a thief.

What do we have? Two apostles of Jesus teaching two differing things? Or could it be they both are relaying to us what Jesus taught them?

My thread on the Son of Man and His Coming demonstrates that Jesus' teaching is far more in depth and covers far more than you seem to be limiting it to. To say "coming like a thief" must always mean "The Second Coming"™ is simply wrong according to Jesus and the apostles.