What supersedes the calling(s) of God?

[Lost]

This thread was inspired from a comment keith4him recently made.

Originally Posted by keith4him

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ead.php?t=4944

I have reached out to the local UPC presbyter in my section, but because the local city Pastor believes that he should be the only UPC pastor in his town, he will not allow a competing church. Our city has 70,000 people in it. ...

Through the years, I have heard of other similiar situations.Are these happenings more common outside of the UPC?

When does the decision of a presbyter, UPC or not, superceed that of a God-given calling? Could God still honor
and bless that calling if it resulted in the disobedience to authority, assuming that the called was under that authority?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Lost

This thread was inspired from a comment keith4him recently made.


Through the years, I have heard of other similiar situations.Are these happenings more common outside of the UPC?

When does the decision of a presbyter, UPC or not, superceed that of a God-given calling? Could God still honor
and bless that calling if it resulted in the disobedience to authority, assuming that the called was under that authority?

I don't know how common it is, but I know there are 4 AOGs in my city...two I think are hispanic congregations, plus one in a smaller city nearby that has no UPC in it at all. City that is larger nearby also has at least 2 that I know of.

JWs have several kingdom Halls. In fact I think they have some sort of organizational rule that when a congregation reaches 200 they start another church....

As I said in the other thread...perhaps there is too much autonomy in the UPC

[ManOfWord]

Your question is, "What supersedes the calling of God?"

The answer is NOTHING!!! Men try, but they will not get a "pass" for taking God's place.

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Your question is, "What supersedes the calling of God?"

The answer is NOTHING!!! Men try, but they will not get a "pass" for taking God's place.

Amen Bro!!!

[Sam]

I don't understand UPC politics so this question may seem ignorant.

What if the person spoken of in this thread just went ahead and started another church on the other side of town? What would happen? Would he be called in before the district board and rebuked? Would he be told to stop trying to start another church or lose his license? Would other churches in that area be told that they could not fellowship the "new" church? Would members of local UPC churches in that area or state be warned that this new work was not of God and they should not go or visit there? Would there be legal action taken by the organization in the local secular court system, like an injunction against the new work, and maybe a cease and desist order obtained from the local civil authorities?

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Lost

This thread was inspired from a comment keith4him recently made.


Through the years, I have heard of other similiar situations.Are these happenings more common outside of the UPC?

When does the decision of a presbyter, UPC or not, superceed that of a God-given calling? Could God still honor
and bless that calling if it resulted in the disobedience to authority, assuming that the called was under that authority?

Sorry but I am not buying what is being sold. Of course nothing supercedes God's calling but I doubt very much that God cares what label is on the outside of His church.

Consequently, I don't see why the UPC should agree to have another UPC church in a city of 70,000 when:

1- It makes it that much harder for the UPC church already in existence to ever achieve economy of scale (more bang for the buck because of larger number of people in attendance).

2- There are plenty of other areas to fish if one wants to use the exact same label as the nearby church.

This is NO WAY means that another Apostolic church can't be in the area. But it is a disservice to the pastor who has already put his heart into the work that is there to have the same label church around the corner. Makes no real sense at all; spiritually-wise, business-wise, or else-wise.

[Malvaro]

Originally Posted by Newman

Sorry but I am not buying what is being sold. Of course nothing supercedes God's calling but I doubt very much that God cares what label is on the outside of His church.

Consequently, I don't see why the UPC should agree to have another UPC church in a city of 70,000 when:

1- It makes it that much harder for the UPC church already in existence to ever achieve economy of scale (more bang for the buck because of larger number of people in attendance).

2- There are plenty of other areas to fish if one wants to use the exact same label as the nearby church.

This is NO WAY means that another Apostolic church can't be in the area. But it is a disservice to the pastor who has already put his heart into the work that is there to have the same label church around the corner. Makes no real sense at all; spiritually-wise, business-wise, or else-wise.

What if the first church has shown no significant growth? Are you still suggesting that the city only needs one Pentecostal church?

If a minister feels called of God to start a church in a certain area... and the organization is just a "ministerial fellowship" and not a spiritual leadership... then what right, spiritually, would the organization have in legislating what a minister does when he feels he is called there?

This is the problem when everyone claims they are getting their marching orders directly from God... what do you do when those orders compete or conflict? lol.

Originally Posted by Lost

This thread was inspired from a comment keith4him recently made.


Through the years, I have heard of other similiar situations.Are these happenings more common outside of the UPC?

When does the decision of a presbyter, UPC or not, superceed that of a God-given calling? Could God still honor
and bless that calling if it resulted in the disobedience to authority, assuming that the called was under that authority?

God's calling always takes precedence and if a particular presbyter or minister doesn't like it, he can take it up with God!

[Malvaro]

Does everyone remember when David was anointed king of Israel, all while Saul maintained control of the kingship for years until he eventually died in battle? David had been anointed, or "called" to that role, yet he was delayed until God changed the circumstances.... During the entire duration, David honored Saul, the very man that was stopping him from claiming the kingship and fulfilling his "calling"....

What say ye? Does this example apply to this question?