Daniel's 70th week

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Dom,

To YOU verse 7 does not seem to be referring to verses 1-3. But to ME thats just what it seems to be pointing to! The time of trouble in the time when the man of sin comes into the glorious land. Verse 7 SEEMS to be referring to the time of his reign when he scatters the power of the holy people.



How about in the glorious land of Israel?

Mike, is physical Israel still considered HOLY to Jesus?

Are you cherry picking through this Daniel 12:41-45? Ammon, Moab, and Ancient Egypt? Egypt is conquered? But Ammon and Moab escape the occupation? Libya and Ethiopia will pay tribute? The two countries are broker than Job's house cat. They weren't back in history, but now? Mike, by all means explain.

Daniel 12:41-45

41He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. 42He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps. 44But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. 45And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Tabernacles are plural. can you tell me why? Do you believe a Antichrist will be more than one temple? Where is that in the New Testament

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Jesus spoke of the desolation of Jerusalem:

Luke 21:20-24

20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES......is the time, times, and a half the angel mentions to Daniel in chapter 12:7

7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Mike, modern Israelis will be made slaves in every country? Mike, I didn't find your proofs for a future rebuilt temple. Times of the Gentiles is referring to Gentile occupation of the land. Meaning Nebuchadnezzar dream, from the head to the feet. So, please answer my questions.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

How so? Are we to assume that there was not a single gentile among the 3000 souls that got saved in Acts 2 considering that there were people from every nation present on that day?

Acts 2
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Jews can be of any race, and are not a race themselves. They are a certain religious, specifically old Covenant, persuasion.

Paul says the Gospel went to the jew first and then the Gentiles.

[mfblume]

Romans 1:..16....For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

I would not say that Peter went to Cornelius thinking that he could only do so after the 70 weeks. It's just that that's the way it turned out. And I think it just turned out that way because of the 70 weeks. Paul did say the Jew would get it first. Now does that mean no Gentiles were allowed, or just that's the way God would actually do it? Technically a gentile could get saved on the day of Pentecost, but those Jews from every nation weren't Gentiles. It just turned out that they didn't until Acts chapter 10.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Proselytes are no longer Gentiles, they are converts to Israelism. They are circumcised like father Abraham who was also circumcised to come into the covenant. But need to understand what Cornelius is all about. If Noahides were already in the church with Peter prior to Peter visiting Cornelius. Why the vision? Why the angel visiting Cornelius to inform him to send for Peter? Maybe I'm not understanding what is being discussed here as far as circumcised converts and uncircumcised Noahides?

Well, I'm not saying Noahides were in the church prior to Acts 10. I was saying there were both proselytes (gentiles converted to Judaism via circumcision) and "Noahides" (gentiles who worshipped God but did not become Jews via circumcision) prior to the end of the Seventy Weeks. Which demonstrates that gentiles could enter Covenant with Jehovah (via circumcision) or at least still be considered righteous worshippers of Jehovah prior to the end of the Seventy Weeks.

Whatever the reason no Gentiles came into the New Covenant prior to Acts 10, it wasn't due to the Seventy Weeks. Which is more obvious to me now that I better understand the purpose of the Seventy Weeks (plus that the Weeks ended the year Christ died).

Still looking into the Jubilee cycle thing, may be a rabbit trail.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Well, I'm not saying Noahides were in the church prior to Acts 10. I was saying there were both proselytes (gentiles converted to Judaism via circumcision) and "Noahides" (gentiles who worshipped God but did not become Jews via circumcision) prior to the end of the Seventy Weeks. Which demonstrates that gentiles could enter Covenant with Jehovah (via circumcision) or at least still be considered righteous worshippers of Jehovah prior to the end of the Seventy Weeks.

Whatever the reason no Gentiles came into the New Covenant prior to Acts 10, it wasn't due to the Seventy Weeks. Which is more obvious to me now that I better understand the purpose of the Seventy Weeks (plus that the Weeks ended the year Christ died).

Still looking into the Jubilee cycle thing, may be a rabbit trail.

Gentiles could become Jews, which are what those proselytes were.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Gentiles could become Jews, which are what those proselytes were.

Um, that's basically what I said. lol

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

But this raises the question of the relation between AD 70 and the 70 Weeks. Why a 40 year or so delay between the end of the Seventy Weeks and the final destruction of the city and of Judea as an Israelite political entity?

If Jesus was crucified in 33 AD (I believe He was, see previous posts) then there was actually 37 years between His death and the destruction of the Temple. His death was on Passover of 33, and the destruction of Jerusalem was finished in the fall of 70. So it was 37 and a half years, or in the 38th year after the cross.

Apparently, the wilderness wanderings in Sinai actually took 38 years.

That being the case, it seems the 38 years appended to the end of the Seventy Weeks have some connection to the 38 years added to Israel's time since the Exodus. They weren't supposed to be in the wilderness that long at all, but it was a punishment added to them because of their unbelief.

I am willing to bet there is a connection here to a Divine adjustment of the Jubilee cycles, to bring Israel's jubilee years into alignment with the genuine intended jubilee years as counted from Creation.

Just thinking out loud here for a moment...

Israel was supposed to go from Egypt into Canaan. Upon arrival they would begin keeping sabbatical years (every seventh year) and jubilees (every 50th year, the year following a cycle of seven sabbatical years).

However, they waited in the wilderness for 38 years until the adult Exodus generation died off, along with Moses and Aaron. Which means their sabbath years and jubilee cycles were 38 years off from what they were originally supposed to be.

Now, the seventy years captivity under Babylon was one year for every sabbath year that Judah had failed to keep. For 490 years they failed to keep a land Sabbath, total of 70 Sabbath years not kept. So they are punished for 70 years (one year for each Sabbath year cycle they missed).

The 70 Weeks (70 Sevens) is clearly related to that time frame in some manner. The 70 Weeks being understood as a probationary release of debt until a debt reckoning could be performed (as per the Lord's parable in of the unforgiving debtor), that is, Judah was spared judgment for 490 years. At the end, we have the cross, which provided a reckoning for debts (sins). However, Jerusalem's failure to receive and extend mercy (exemplified by the crucifixion of Christ) meant the debts they had accumulated would be exacted, not pardoned or discharged.

I am still not sure WHAT the connexion is, but the fact is the exaction didn't take place until 38 years after the expiration of the 70 Weeks. There is some connection with the 38 years in the wilderness, the timing of the land Sabbaths, the 70 years of Judah's captivity, and the 70 Weeks' expiration...

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Well, I'm not saying Noahides were in the church prior to Acts 10. I was saying there were both proselytes (gentiles converted to Judaism via circumcision) and "Noahides" (gentiles who worshipped God but did not become Jews via circumcision) prior to the end of the Seventy Weeks. Which demonstrates that gentiles could enter Covenant with Jehovah (via circumcision) or at least still be considered righteous worshippers of Jehovah prior to the end of the Seventy Weeks.

Whatever the reason no Gentiles came into the New Covenant prior to Acts 10, it wasn't due to the Seventy Weeks. Which is more obvious to me now that I better understand the purpose of the Seventy Weeks (plus that the Weeks ended the year Christ died).

Still looking into the Jubilee cycle thing, may be a rabbit trail.

Gentiles we’re entering in since Abraham. Ruth was a Moabite. Hence my whole hullabaloo on why the tribes weren’t a race. It all revolves around lineages.
Who married who, who begat who. No, I think the Jubilee cycle issue might be very interesting. I had a pretty hard day seems their was a big explosion at the job this morning concerning the topic I brought up concerning Jussie Smollet. Looks like it turned into a conspiracy. Jussie was jumped by Trump supporters who wore red hats. The Chicago police was trying to turn everything on him. He is innocent because after all the charges were dropped. I still can’t figure out how Trup and the Miller report is in the book of Daniel. Had the brother almost walk off the job because I was laughing so hard. Anyway, I guess we will resume at 4:30 AM when I get back to the job. 5:00 AM to 6:00 PM. I bet Jussie Smollet doesn’t have to do any of that!

[Esaias]

Maybe its like this:

70 Weeks determined. But, an extra 38 years was given to serve as a potential reversal of the 38 years of wandering due to unbelief.

Perhaps the 70 Weeks' end aligned with a larger cycle that started with the Exodus, but because of the wilderness delay the final outcome was delayed a proportionate amount of time...?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Um, that's basically what I said. lol

Just stressing they didn't come into the new covenant from the point of being Gentiles.