The Great Tribulation: Battleground Earth

[Esaias]

What is the context and purpose of the chapter, of the epistle? Is it to teach on the Apocalyptic Battleground: Earth in the far future Days of Great Tribulation?

1 Peter 2:1 establishes the context and subject matter: False Teachers introducing False Doctrines and making merchandize of people.

Verse 3 focuses on how these false teachers would use 'feigned words" to make money off unsuspecting Christians. Their judgment, however, approaches and they shall not escape.

Verse 4 begins with "For IF..." He doesn't say "Now, here's what happened." He says IF such and such happened. If requires a corresponding Then. The "then" part of the paragraph is implied and not stated due to the lengths spent discussing Lot. But it is obvious what the then part is: "...then God will not spare these false teachers either."

The SUBJECT of the passage in question is false teachers making money off the unlearned and unwise by promoting false heretical teachings and by using feigned words.

Is it not interesting that Peter here quotes from the book of Enoch (chapter 10, verse 4, to be exact)? A Jewish mythological treatise? And in the parallel passage in Jude, when speaking of these sinning angels, again the Jewish apocryphal (pseudepigraphical) book of Enoch is quoted from? Why do both writers quote a non Biblical Jewish myth, instead of just quoting Genesis, when talking about these sinning angels? Perhaps because they are referencing a JEWISH MYTH PROMOTED BY THE FALSE TEACHERS?

Peter is not giving a didactic, doctrinal dissertation on Biblical cosmology and end of days scenarios. He is making an ARGUMENT against a certain group of FALSE TEACHERS. And uses their own teaching to refute them and their covetous merchandizing of gullible saints.

Jewish exorcists taught that angels rebelled against God, were cast down, but now roam the earth as demons. Sound familiar? They charged money for getting the demons out of your life, your house, your business, etc.

Peter is showing how their own feigned words are self refuting (angels bound in hell cannot be troubling you, because they are bound in hell...). And rather than stopping there, and depending on their own Jewish myth to refute and condemn these false teachers, he turns to Scripture to nail the point home: God is not mocked, the wicked false teachers SHALL NOT escape judgement.

THAT is Peter's entire point.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Is it possible you have misunderstood what's going in Peter's epistle? Nobody is mocking the apostolic word. They are disagreeing with your interpretation of the word.

Did Peter mention Tartarus? Actually, not really, the Greek word is a verb, literally "tartarised", translated as the whole phrase "cast them down into hell". Since Tartarus appears nowhere else in all of Scripture, why did he use the verb form without explanation, as if he expected his audience to already know what he was talking about? Where did they get the background information, to not be saying " Huh? Peter, whatchoo talkin bout?"

Is it possible you are building a belief and doctrine based on incomplete information? Information available to those first century readers but which for some reason YOU have not been exposed to?

Well a search on epicsearch.com turned up plenty of results for "Tartarus". All of then talking about the Biblical word.

To me no big deal if it is spelled a little bit different. We all know its the same place. I never sought out to argue over "Tartarus". My point in the video is that there will be demonic beings/creatures loosed from the bottomless pit.

They will TORMENT men for 5 months with stings that will make men wish they were dead. Sounds serious to me.

Dom brought up "Tartarus". I said ok maybe thats the bottomless pit. To me wrangling over where this pit is or if it even exists is not as important as what comes out of it at the 5th trumpet.

Namely terrifying judgement. I'm pointing men to cleave to Jesus. Get strong in Christ. Dont be fooled into thinking its an alien invasion.

He who endures to the end shall be saved.

PS.....I said this:

To me wrangling over where this pit is or if it even exists is not as important as what comes out of it at the 5th trumpet.

Because it seemed like a given that believers would believe the bottomless pit existed.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Well a search on epicsearch.com turned up plenty of results for "Tartarus". All of then talking about the Biblical word.

You're kidding, right?

To me no big deal if it is spelled a little bit different. We all know its the same place.

Uh, no big deal? Spelled a bit different? Mike, the term Peter used is a verb, tartarised. But, OK.

I never sought out to argue over "Tartarus". My point in the video is that there will be demonic beings/creatures loosed from the bottomless pit.

They will TORMENT men for 5 months with stings that will make men wish they were dead. Sounds serious to me.

Serious enough to verify doctrine by a quick "epicsearch"? Really?

Dom brought up "Tartarus". I said ok maybe thats the bottomless pit. To me wrangling over where this pit is or if it even exists is not as important as what comes out of it at the 5th trumpet.

Namely terrifying judgement. I'm pointing men to cleave to Jesus. Get strong in Christ. Dont be fooled into thinking its an alien invasion.

He who endures to the end shall be saved.

PS.....I said this:



Because it seemed like a given that believers would believe the bottomless pit existed.

Mike, the scorpion demons, as you call them, can only torment those who have not the seal of God (Rev 9:4). So believers who are sealed to God aren't in danger of thinking there's an alien invasion, and people who aren't sealed get the torment no matter what they think.

So, sounds more like you are caught up in the epic grandiosity of a Tolkien-esque end time scenario, rather than being diligent to understand what these VISIONS in the Apocalypse mean. Just maybe?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What is the context and purpose of the chapter, of the epistle? Is it to teach on the Apocalyptic Battleground: Earth in the far future Days of Great Tribulation?

1 Peter 2:1 establishes the context and subject matter: False Teachers introducing Fade Doctrines and making merchandize of people.

Verse 3 focuses on how these false teachers would use 'feigned words" to make money off unsuspecting Christians. Their judgment, however, approaches and they shall not escape.

Verse 4 begins with "For IF..." He doesn't say "Now, here's what happened." He says IF such and such happened. If requires a corresponding Then. The "then" part of the paragraph is implied and not stated due to the lengths spent discussing Lot. But it is obvious what the then part is: "...then God will not spare these false teachers either."

The SUBJECT of the passage in question is false teachers making money off the unlearned and unwise by promoting false heretical teachings and by using feigned words.

Is it not interesting that Peter here quotes from the book of Enoch (chapter 10, verse 4, to be exact)? A Jewish mythological treatise? And in the parallel passage in Jude, when speaking of these sinning angels, again the Jewish apocryphal (pseudepigraphical) book of Enoch is quoted from? Why do both writers quote a non Biblical Jewish myth, instead of just quoting Genesis, when talking about these sinning angels? Perhaps because they are referencing a JEWISH MYTH PROMOTED BY THE FALSE TEACHERS?

Peter is not giving a didactic, doctrinal dissertation on Biblical cosmology and end of days scenarios. He is making an ARGUMENT against a certain group of FALSE TEACHERS. And uses their own teaching to refute them and their covetous merchandizing of gullible saints.

Jewish exorcists taught that angels rebelled against God, were cast down, but now roam the earth as demons. Sound familiar? They charged money for getting the demons out of your life, your house, your business, etc.

Peter is showing how their own feigned words are self refuting (angels bound in hell cannot be troubling you, because they are bound in hell...). And rather than stopping there, and depending on their own Jewish myth to refute and condemn these false teachers, he turns to Scripture to nail the point home: God is not mocked, the wicked false teachers SHALL NOT escape judgement.

THAT is Peter's entire point.

This is awesome!!!!

[Esaias]

But none of this is actually relevant without first establishing the background of the vision. It is one in a series of visions, going back to the six seals and ch 4.

What disturbs me is when people just ASSUME the whole thing is a "future end time scenario" but never establish that is, in fact, the case. They don't point out the six seals and identify WHEN THESE THINGS WERE/ARE SUPPOSED TO BEGIN.

Never mind the Jesuit Counter-Reformation history of futurist eschatology...

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You're kidding, right?

Sadly...no.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sadly...no.

Bishop Google, Th.D. has some new competition, I guess?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Is it possible you have misunderstood what's going in Peter's epistle? Nobody is mocking the apostolic word. They are disagreeing with your interpretation of the word.

Did Peter mention Tartarus? Actually, not really, the Greek word is a verb, literally "tartarised", translated as the whole phrase "cast them down into hell". Since Tartarus appears nowhere else in all of Scripture, why did he use the verb form without explanation, as if he expected his audience to already know what he was talking about? Where did they get the background information, to not be saying " Huh? Peter, whatchoo talkin bout?"

Is it possible you are building a belief and doctrine based on incomplete information? Information available to those first century readers but which for some reason YOU have not been exposed to?

Exactly!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Bishop Google, Th.D. has some new competition, I guess?

It is bewildering. Because this is how this country’s religious dedication is going. We became the next new thing, eschatology is hyper doomsday. Everyone has 100 different wild ideas concerning Revelation. Peter was actually warning us about Bill Clinton, Hillary, and the Obamas? Osama Bin Laden is the angel over the abyss? The locusts are Muslim invaders, their scorpion stings are rockets?
Yet, Revelation warns us not to add or take away from its contents. Then you have guys who say they are just reading what is written. Yet the Ethiopian understood enough that when asked if he understood what he was reading. He replied he couldn’t know unless guided. Too bad we have self made gurus who are personally chosen by themselves to lead the rest of us to a bottomless pit.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

As usual you wrest what I said. When I said it was a speculation I was obviously referring to THE HOLLOW EARTH THEORY.

I do not speculate whether there is a bottomless pit in the Earth. I believe in it.

If the bottomless pit is lower than Hades that just means it is lower than the grave, Biblically speaking. And its strange if its just "poetic" and "symbolic" that John wrote it was opened and beings who were led by a king come out of it.

Hallow Earth theory? Like the Nation of Islam?

And I’m the heretic?

Smh