UPC, ALJC, PAW, etc.

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

It is supposed to be scatter barreled and hit everyone.

You objected to my characterization of "blowing up new converts," but how can a pastor put the hammer down in a mixed congregation without potentially doing that? I'm not saying it would be his goal, but collateral damage is a real thing.

For instance, a new couple arrives at the church. In the following weeks, they meet with the pastor for counseling and discuss some of the things they know they need to work on. Pastor hammers away on a few of these things in the next Sunday sermon because Sister Sally Pewsitter across the way has been doing them and that pastor wants to nip it in the bud. New couple thinks he is airing dirty laundry and never comes back. Has that pastor done his job or done more harm than good?

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Ehud

You objected to my characterization of "blowing up new converts," but how can a pastor put the hammer down in a mixed congregation without potentially doing that? I'm not saying it would be his goal, but collateral damage is a real thing.

For instance, a new couple arrives at the church. In the following weeks, they meet with the pastor for counseling and discuss some of the things they know they need to work on. Pastor hammers away on a few of these things in the next Sunday sermon because Sister Sally Pewsitter across the way has been doing them and that pastor wants to nip it in the bud. New couple thinks he is airing dirty laundry and never comes back. Has that pastor done his job or done more harm than good?

seem the Pastor needs wisdom. In the case you mentioned here he has done more damage than good for sure. A pastor can preach against sin in a caring way that the people will appreciate and still understand the severity.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

seem the Pastor needs wisdom. In the case you mentioned here he has done more damage than good for sure. A pastor can preach against sin in a caring way that the people will appreciate and still understand the severity.

The problem is they don’t understand God’s ways and want to figure it all out logically. I’ve seen men preach hard on standards with love and compassion and seen first time visitors there filled with Holy Ghost. Actually many times.....

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

seem the Pastor needs wisdom. In the case you mentioned here he has done more damage than good for sure. A pastor can preach against sin in a caring way that the people will appreciate and still understand the severity.

Agreed. Can you provide an example of how this would play out?

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

seem the Pastor needs wisdom. In the case you mentioned here he has done more damage than good for sure. A pastor can preach against sin in a caring way that the people will appreciate and still understand the severity.

True that.

[Costeon]

Originally Posted by Holy Roller

Any one here affiliated with these organizations?

As a regular poster here, I know opinions on these denominations vary, but what's some specific thoughts? The pros and cons?

I was baptized in Jesus' name and filled with the Spirit about thirty years ago in a UPCI church. I have remained UPCI since then. I've never really had any other options. In the metropolitan area I live in, besides UPCI churches, there are a couple of independent/non-denominational Oneness churches. One is ultra-conservative, and the other is ultra-liberal and never addresses holiness principles at all. Neither would work for me.

Over the time I've attended a UPCI church, I have definitely seen a change in attitude in the congregation toward the pastor's authority. Through most of the 90s it still seemed that most would follow the pastor's convictions and standards without a great deal of explanation or defense of his viewpoints, just because he was the man of God, but that seems to have all but vanished. People don't follow just because the pastor says so. They need an explanation--and still may or may not accept it. Now, at church they may look the part, but on their own time, well, that's different.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Costeon

I was baptized in Jesus' name and filled with the Spirit about thirty years ago in a UPCI church. I have remained UPCI since then. I've never really had any other options. In the metropolitan area I live in, besides UPCI churches, there are a couple of independent/non-denominational Oneness churches. One is ultra-conservative, and the other is ultra-liberal and never addresses holiness principles at all. Neither would work for me.

Over the time I've attended a UPCI church, I have definitely seen a change in attitude in the congregation toward the pastor's authority. Through most of the 90s it still seemed that most would follow the pastor's convictions and standards without a great deal of explanation or defense of his viewpoints, just because he was the man of God, but that seems to have all but vanished. People don't follow just because the pastor says so. They need an explanation--and still may or may not accept it. Now, at church they may look the part, but on their own time, well, that's different.

I think the internet has some part in this. People can now look things up more easily. Stories and feelings are also more easily shared. For example, many can discover that the first church of Scripture never really condemned beards, and that many many saints feel the standard is outdated and a bit stuffy, or worse if preached as a heaven or hell issue.

[Costeon]

Originally Posted by Antipas

I think the internet has some part in this. People can now look things up more easily.

Indeed. Also, there has been a general undermining of authority in our culture.

For example, many can discover that the first church of Scripture never really condemned beards, and that many many saints feel the standard is outdated and a bit stuffy, or worse if preached as a heaven or hell issue.

I remember when I got in church and started learning about the holiness standards. The anti-beard stance struck me as odd since, well, Jesus had one, but I was deeply puzzled when someone tried to explain starting with, "Well, the hippies . . . " I was 18 and had no memory of the hippies, and asked, "But wasn't that like 20 or 25 years ago??" Seemed like ancient history then. :-)

Many of the standards when I first heard them taught seemed to not have the strongest scriptural foundation. But I was so happy with my experience and respected the people I was going to church with because they were so committed, especially compared to the other Christians I knew, I figured there had to be something to the standards and so conformed.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by Costeon

Indeed. Also, there has been a general undermining of authority in our culture.



I remember when I got in church and started learning about the holiness standards. The anti-beard stance struck me as odd since, well, Jesus had one, but I was deeply puzzled when someone tried to explain starting with, "Well, the hippies . . . " I was 18 and had no memory of the hippies, and asked, "But wasn't that like 20 or 25 years ago??" Seemed like ancient history then. :-)

Many of the standards when I first heard them taught seemed to not have the strongest scriptural foundation. But I was so happy with my experience and respected the people I was going to church with because they were so committed, especially compared to the other Christians I knew, I figured there had to be something to the standards and so conformed.

Sounds pretty interesting that first coming to church you had so much knowledge that what was being taught had no scriptural foundation.

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Sounds pretty interesting that first coming to church you had so much knowledge that what was being taught had no scriptural foundation.

It could be that whomever presented it didn't open the bible, but rather told stories of yesteryear. It would be easy to interpret "no bible reference" as "no scriptural foundation." I have heard many a sermon during which the minister read a single verse, yet preached for an hour. He might have been right, but it wasn't because of his single, unrelated scripture reference.