UPC, ALJC, PAW, etc. - Page 18

Ehud · #**171** 05-23-2019, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

It would go something like this.
Pastor: Church I just want everyone to know that a few days ago the "Doe" family came to me in confidence and private and wanted to talk to me about their struggle with letting go of Jerry Springer.
Well Church I have you to know we still stand against the Devilvission around here and if you got a tv your not going to be serving in any capacity in this church.
now God gave me this message while I was a fishing on my 80 acres saturday because I didnt have time to stop by the church this week and fall asleep at my desk...I mean praying in my office... now if this offends you, you dont have the Holy Ghost and your not submitted to your Pastor. You know I just want you to be saved.....

Boy didnt God speak to us this morning? He really walked up our driveway and gnocked on our front door didnt he?

I dont know why the "Doe" family stopped coming to church, I guess the Fire was getting too hot for them and they were offended at the Word of God....

As a follow up, should the pastor go to the Doe family and ask them why they left? Or should he just let them go because he delivered the message he felt to deliver?

Apostolic1ness · #**172** 05-23-2019, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ehud

As a follow up, should the pastor go to the Doe family and ask them why they left? Or should he just let them go because he delivered the message he felt to deliver?

It was a joke. If a Pastor did that they should go ahead a get a job at Wendy's.

Ehud · #**173** 05-23-2019, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

It was a joke. If a Pastor did that they should go ahead a get a job at Wendy's.

Oh thank God! I was hoping it was, but I've already made too many assumptions in this thread!

Antipas · #**174** 05-23-2019, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

Good question. platform rules sure. but the Pastor should use a little wisdom dealing with traditions. I would rather be taught why a tradition is being kept than have to wonder why we do what we do. So I think if a tradition is kept there needs to be an understanding why.

I can only speak for me but I want to know the whys.
Im not totally against traditions some are for the safety of the saints.

Good points. But I see issues with a few of them.

What if someone brought up that more people leave our movement over the outdated personal convictions that have become sacred traditions than outright sins like adultery, drunkenness, or fornication? I see them everywhere. In fact, on the street, those who are familiar with the Apostolic churches and organizations around here will almost always bring up the standards they just felt were stuffy and stifling their love for Christ.

Even this forum, and other Apostolic forums and social media have a near constant discussions on this with both sides passionate about their beliefs. However, but the average person on the street who visits our churches, or eventually leaves, will talk about how these "standards" contributed to why they left.

This could indicate that these traditions are perhaps more dangerous than we realize, only offering "safety" to those saints who prefer that things not change from what they've known since the 1960's.

Antipas · #**175** 05-23-2019, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ehud

Dead on. We would do well to speak with our pastors about these things instead of assuming they are just cooks who can't keep up with the times.

Good point.

Is it possible that some pastors find themselves as much hostage to a mold that the congregation has had for decades as the new comers? But the pastor continues to hold the line... knowing that if he dares to challenge, change, or loosen the outdated traditions... the church will just fall apart or run him out of town?

hometown guy · #**176** 05-23-2019, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antipas

Good point.

Is it possible that some pastors find themselves as much hostage to a mold that the congregation has had for decades as the new comers? But the pastor continues to hold the line... knowing that if he dares to challenge, change, or loosen the outdated traditions... the church will just fall apart or run him out of town?

No matter what side of the fence a pastor is on he would be a hireling to be like this.

Antipas · #**177** 05-23-2019, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

It was preached against. The problem is with what the beards symbolize and affiliated one with. Like I said an earlier post. We know what the original meaning of the rainbow is. You go outside dressed up all in rainbow today and tell me what kind of result you will get. Yes we preach against homosexuality but also whatever affiliates one with that culture.

I don't think the Sunday School department should stop putting up rainbows because the gays are using them. lol

Antipas · #**178** 05-23-2019, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

seem the Pastor needs wisdom. In the case you mentioned here he has done more damage than good for sure. A pastor can preach against sin in a caring way that the people will appreciate and still understand the severity.

True that.

Ehud · #**179** 05-23-2019, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antipas

I believe that a pastor is within their rights to pull a person aside over a sin issue. They are also within their rights to rebuke the sin before all, without mentioning the person's name. I also think the pastor is within their rights to rebuke the sin, and name the person before the congregation.

Of course, wisdom and the leading of the Holy Ghost should guide the pastor in all of this.

...

What sin is it that needs rebuked in front of an entire congregation that all of those people don't already know is wrong? Can they catch adultery like it's chicken pox or something? Or perhaps thievery is spreading like cholera?

Maybe I have been reading too much into some of these responses, but they always seem like the pastor is going out of his way to mention something that is festering in the congregation. Couldn't all of that be addressed with a sermon that includes "and such were some of you?" Or is that not putting down the hammer hard enough?

Antipas · #**180** 05-23-2019, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Costeon

I was baptized in Jesus' name and filled with the Spirit about thirty years ago in a UPCI church. I have remained UPCI since then. I've never really had any other options. In the metropolitan area I live in, besides UPCI churches, there are a couple of independent/non-denominational Oneness churches. One is ultra-conservative, and the other is ultra-liberal and never addresses holiness principles at all. Neither would work for me.

Over the time I've attended a UPCI church, I have definitely seen a change in attitude in the congregation toward the pastor's authority. Through most of the 90s it still seemed that most would follow the pastor's convictions and standards without a great deal of explanation or defense of his viewpoints, just because he was the man of God, but that seems to have all but vanished. People don't follow just because the pastor says so. They need an explanation--and still may or may not accept it. Now, at church they may look the part, but on their own time, well, that's different.

I think the internet has some part in this. People can now look things up more easily. Stories and feelings are also more easily shared. For example, many can discover that the first church of Scripture never really condemned beards, and that many many saints feel the standard is outdated and a bit stuffy, or worse if preached as a heaven or hell issue.