UPC, ALJC, PAW, etc.

[Evang.Benincasa]

OK, I will make a futile attempt here. Ephesians 4:11-13 is telling you that these positions are to be held by mature elders, who will in turn mature saints to do the work of elders. So, they can come to the knowledge of Christ. I already pointed out with Paul's own words that he didn't "apostle" right away.

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by n david

I simply went to another church which doesn't have the same outdated preference.

Thank God for liberty in south Tejas.

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

You are right that Paul was highly educated in Judaism. He was also persecuting and killing Christians. His training was not for Christian ministry. He was a novice at that, yet he went straightway . . .

And preached Christ in the synagogues, that he was the son of God.

He didn’t wait. He didn’t ask permission either, evidently.

How much “Christian training” did this ridiculously educated man need to simply proclaim Christ as Son of God? You’re acting as if he’d never seen a scripture before. He wasn’t some random guy who meandered into the synagogue.

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

OK, I will make a futile attempt here. Ephesians 4:11-13 is telling you that these positions are to be held by mature elders, who will in turn mature saints to do the work of elders. So, they can come to the knowledge of Christ. I already pointed out with Paul's own words that he didn't "apostle" right away.

Now, now, let’s not act like scripture and reason will prevail in this discussion. You should be ashamed for using such tricks!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Ehud

How much “Christian training” did this ridiculously educated man need to simply proclaim Christ as Son of God? You’re acting as if he’d never seen a scripture before. He wasn’t some random guy who meandered into the synagogue.

That is what blows my mind. Paul wasn't trained in Christian MINISTERIAL TRAINING? What in heaven's name is that?!?!?!

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by n david

It's outdated as in this was over 50 years ago, almost 60 years ago and yet a lot of Pastors are still pointing to "beards = hippy movement" for the reason they prohibit beards.

Good thing those rebellious hippies didn't wear jeans . . . oh wait.


Skinny jeans, cap sleeves and mini skirts are found in scripture. It's called modesty. Modesty is actually mentioned in the Bible.



Oh good grief. You're nuts.


smh

First, the Pastor of the church I left and I are on good speaking terms. He's a good friend of my family. It's funny that I'm being blasted by those who don't know anything about me, yet the Pastor affected holds no ill feelings against me. I still speak to several other friends from the church as well.

This is incredible, and all too predictable coming from cons. Cons will claim that they neither preach nor hear "beards will send you to hell," yet in the same breath, if you choose to attend a church which doesn't include this prohibition which is man-made and a personal preference NOT based in scripture, NOT based on anything but "hippies are bad" -- suddenly you become someone who's not in God's will, who's picking churches like they pick food from a buffet and worse -- rebellious.

Bottom line for men who grow facial hair: you haven't really repented; you don't really have the HG; you're in rebellion; your facial hair is a slippery slope which will lead you to wear skinny jeans, mohawks, diamond studded earrings, pinkie rings, smoking cigarettes and THAT will lead to all kinds of drugs and other sins. In a nutshell: you're going to hell.

So be honest and just say what you believe: men with facial hair are going to hell.

[diakonos]

Prohibiting facial hair is a STRONG standard?

Originally Posted by hometown guy

They probably have never heard a respected ultra con pastor say facial hair was a heaven or hell issue. Maybe some wacko but not one else. This has just been their interpretation of anyone that has a strong standard they disagree with.

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by n david

I do not believe the popular opinion that a person MUST have a Pastor to be saved. I've heard that preached over and over and simply do not believe it.

The head of every man is Christ. We are not the Catholic church. I do believe we should fellowship with the body. I do not believe it is required that every man have a Pastor.


If a Pastor wants to impose his personal preference and create dress codes, he's certainly free to do so.

There's a Pastor I know who requires congregants to notify him of vacation plans. I know of another Pastor who requires, or did back in the mid/late 90s, congregants to disclose their paystubs or W2s to verify the tithes being paid are accurate. The same one during the same time would post names of those not paying tithes on a church bulletin board.

So Pastors can do a lot of things. Doesn't mean they're right or have any foundation in the Bible.


Again, if the Pastor wants to do so, he certainly may.


I believe if the man chooses to remain a member of the church and desires to participate in the ministry, then absolutely, he should follow the rules.


No. The man is not a slave or property of the Pastor. If he desires to attend another church, that's between that man and God. God is the head of the man, not the Pastor.

Excellent post

[Evang.Benincasa]

“No man is an Island, entire of it self; every man is a piece of the Continent, a part of the main.”

Saying that you cannot be saved without a pastor in no means implies the pastor is God. We are to be part of a whole, a body. While one can say that they are connected to fellow Christians around the world, just because they are a Christians too, is a laugh. You need a church family, with elders, ministers. It is community. The apostles understood this, Paul being one who wrote letters concerning Church governance. Submit yourselves one to another becomes a joke for the me, myself, and I Christian. I submit to Jesus, I don't need elders in my life. That is a lie, like someone telling you they are sorry, but never doing sorry. Which means talk is cheap, but how do you prove it? Kindness, helping an occasional little old lady cross the street, working hard for another super spiritual merit badge? I have met more than my fair share of "I submit to Jesus, He is my head" gurus. Only to find out that submission to any form of accountability was the least of their problems.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

“No man is an Island, entire of it self; every man is a piece of the Continent, a part of the main.”

Saying that you cannot be saved without a pastor in no means implies the pastor is God. We are to be part of a whole, a body. While one can say that they are connected to fellow Christians around the world, just because they are a Christians too, is a laugh. You need a church family, with elders, ministers. It is community. The apostles understood this, Paul being one who wrote letters concerning Church governance. Submit yourselves one to another becomes a joke for the me, myself, and I Christian. I submit to Jesus, I don't need elders in my life. That is a lie, like someone telling you they are sorry, but never doing sorry. Which means talk is cheap, but how do you prove it? Kindness, helping an occasional little old lady cross the street, working hard for another super spiritual merit badge? I have met more than my fair share of "I submit to Jesus, He is my head" gurus. Only to find out that submission to any form of accountability was the least of their problems.