Why Sunday

[mfblume]

...continued.

See? This is the effect of conversion. Therefore they were servants of sin prior to conversion.

Romans 6:19 KJV
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

This is the very next verse. He makes it plain: AS YOU HAVE YIELDED YOURSELF TO BE A SLAVE TO SIN, SO NOW YIELD YOURSELF AS A SLAVE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS. Very simple and straightforward.

It does appear so, if you do not get the prior truths mentioned in this chapter established in your heart first, such as Romans 6:3-12. But that cannot be the case if you read and catch the entire context in the chapter. Here's why:

Your thoughts are, in effect, telling us that to get to the state where Jesus arrived, where sin does not have dominion over him any more, we do not have to go the route that Jesus took, which is the death, burial and resurrection. He did that but we have another route? Human power to refuse to yield! With or without the Spirit! We merely have to go the route of refusing to yield to sin, and skip past Romans 6:3-12 and simply read verse 1 and drop down to verse 13, but remove the all-important aspect of verse 13's statement that says "AS THOSE ALIVE FROM THE DEAD." Simply replace that clause with "AS THOSE WHO KNOW HOW TO REFUSE TO YIELD TO SIN.

Paul's entire argument stated that the death of Jesus frees us from sin. And you gloss over all those verses and stress the point of verses 14-18.

This shows you are missing the actual point in those verses you focus on. When you read them with the previous verses 3:13 in mind, then you should understand that he is actually saying that, from a believer's perspective only, their current state is one in which they can look at the picture of "yielding" or "not yielding" to sin, to emphasize his point for BELIEVERS. He cannot be saying that when they were servants, they merely yielded to sin. Now that they are saved, they do indeed merely yield to it if they are sinning. Verse 19, therefore, can only mean that as believers they yielded to sin, which is the entire reason that he wrote to them, and gave rise to the question, "Know ye not?"

Romans 6:1 KJV
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

The believer is not to CONTINUE in sin. That means there is a hypothetical uninterrupted condition of sinning, begun in the unregenerate state and (hypothetically here) CONTINUING into the regenerate state. Therefore, the "servant to sin" condition spoken of in the verses following apply first to the unregenerate, then to the regenerate who fails to act like he has in fact been regenerated. The voluntary nature of sin is clearly established here (and elsewhere).

Only for saints, not sinners. Again, how do you reconcile the answer for the life of continuing in sin to be death with Christ instead of refusal to yield to it in Paul's earlier context that leads up to this point?

How then is the sinner ACCOUNTABLE for his sin?

If a person with Tourrette's cusses their mom, are they guilty of cursing their mother and DESERVING OF DEATH?

I never said death. lol. But, you are comparing someone who cannot help cussing due to a mental illness with the compulsion to sin that's in every sinner, and saying it is wrong for God to say they are judged and condemned for hell because they are doing something they cannot stop doing, anyway. Romans 5 clearly stated that Adam's act made us sinners. It was not a sinful act that made us sinners, but Adam's act.

Romans 5:19.. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, ...


So, the truth is that Adam put sin and death, both, onto our lives and we are lost for it.


Romans 5:12.. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:


Death passed on us all because of one man, Adam.


But the rest of the verse 19 says, "so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."


It is true that we are lost because of things we cannot control. We are judged But by the same token that is the basis of salvation, because we are saved by the righteousness of Jesus and not our own by our own acts.


Here is where people get confused and think the only conclusion that they can contrive is all that anyone can contrive, by saying this teaching leads to Calvinism. No, it does not.


By remaining in the place in which God put us when He saved us, which is in Christ, we must learn to abide by the power of the Spirit by walking after the Spirit, which is what 6:13 describes in a nutshell. so as to stop committing sin. Until we get there, when we sin we must repent, or else we have lost that sanctified position in Christ. And if we fail to repent when we sin, then we are as bound for hell as we were before we were placed in Christ.


The difference between our lives now and before we were saved is that we can now either yield to sin or not yield to it, and instead yield to obedience with the grace-power of the Spirit.

No, rather, let's not ignore the logical conclusions of faulty reasoning just because the faulty reasoner chooses to believe their conclusion follows from their premises.

No, my conclusion follows Paul's overall context, and your failure to insert with reason that context from 6:3-13 into your explanation of verses 16-19 shows that this conclusion presented to me is the actual faulty reasoning that can only stand if that context is bypassed.

If sin is transgression of the law, and sin is involuntary (as you seem to be asserting), then is that why you do not obey the 4th commandment? You can't help it?

You keep forgetting that the 4th commandment is not violated by keeping it spiritually and resting in Christ, but fuflilled. Let's at least try to remember that after so many weeks of it being emphasized.

The truth is that if you think that we are sinners BY OUR OWN ACTIONS and not those of Adam's, then by the same token YOU MUST DENY that you can only be righteous by Jesus' righteousness having been given to you as a gift. We can only deny that HIS WORK is the only works that save us, and indulge in salvation by works. Calvinism simply does not see the seriousness of committing sins after salvation as being grounds for loss of salvation if repentance is not involved.

It's about the cross, not about refusing to yield, for sinners. For saints, it's refusing to yield.