Should we teach others to rebel against standards? - Page 72

coksiw · #**711** 02-21-2020, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

So, every ministry that comes through your local assembly is going to give an account for your soul?

Every calling is unique, its not to bring one down and set another up.
The pastor isn’t “the speakers of God”? Brother, what are they doing when they get up to that pulpit? If you don't believe your Pastor is a voice of God, it’s time you get up and go find someone who is. I hope you misspoke or mistyped with that.

Do you believe the Pastor is the voice of God in the assembly, and He won’t speak to the assembly thru other ministries as well?

I am using “the”, instead of “a”, in my posts intentionally, meaning “the only one”. I also said in my post “not just the Pastors”. I don’t think you are understanding my point.

Let me quote this again:

[Rom 12:3 NKJV] For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.
[Rom 12:4 NKJV] For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function

Esaias · #**712** 02-21-2020, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

It’s not contrary to God’s word.....

How so? Can you post the scriptures that show being clean shaven is agreeable to God?

Can you show the scriptures that teach it is agreeable to God for one man to demand other men be clean shaven?

Esaias · #**713** 02-21-2020, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I disagree, I believe standards are there to protect.

What I was saying is people contend about standards not because of the standards themselves, but because it is a contention about authority and who decides what.

hometown guy · #**714** 02-21-2020, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

How so? Can you post the scriptures that show being clean shaven is agreeable to God?

Can you show the scriptures that teach it is agreeable to God for one man to demand other men be clean shaven?

All what I said is it was not contrary.... get off your high horse you will ok.

Nicodemus1968 · #**715** 02-21-2020, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

All what I said is it was not contrary.... get off your high horse you will ok.

You have to understand some men will only accept “thou shalt not ______.”

Esaias · #**716** 02-21-2020, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

All what I said is it was not contrary.... get off your high horse you will ok.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

You have to understand some men will only accept “thou shalt not ______.”

Have fun guys. I'm done trying to have a serious Bible conversation with people on the internet.

Brother Nic, tell the evangelist we continue to pray regularly for his endeavors, as well as for the brethren in Tulsa. When we are able we will send a gift to help out again. Lord bless.

Tithesmeister · #**717** 02-21-2020, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Hebrews 13:7
Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Who is this talking about?

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Watch:
Ultimately from G1 (as negative particle) and G5258; to be sleepless that is keep awake: - watch.

I believe these verses are talking the Pastor, overseer of the flock, Angel of the church. He will be required to give an account for your soul. If your Pastor is one to just give wisdom, and or advice thats not a Pastor. I have friends that can do that!

Brother,

I believe that you are misinterpreting this passage. You are certainly not alone. Many people believe and teach, that these verses are referring to pastors. I used to believe it as well. Let’s dig in a little deeper. Some questions:

Does the verse or verses say pastor?

Or are you hearing pastor?

Does any verse in the Bible refer to a pastor as a ruler of other men or ladies, in the church?

Is a pastor in authority over another man in the church?

Are there any scripture passages that contradict your interpretation?

If you could answer these questions, by objective study on your own, it might make it easier to “rightly divide the word”.

Would you be willing to try?

Or are you happy with your opinion?

Tithesmeister · #**718** 02-21-2020, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

What I was saying is people contend about standards not because of the standards themselves, but because it is a contention about authority and who decides what.

:thumbs up

Tithesmeister · #**719** 02-21-2020, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

If a person doesn’t believe their Pastor watches for there soul, this scripture means nothing to them. However, your Pastor is charged to watch for your soul. He sees further than the saint can see.

It seems to me that you are mistaken in your definition of soul. You jump to the conclusion that you, as pastor are responsible for watching for the souls (which you define as eternal salvation) of your saints.

Brother, allow me to share some good news with you. You, as a pastor, are NOT responsible for someone else’s eternal salvation. You can relax about that.

Do you feel better?

Isn’t that a relief?

Let me (or Paul actually) explain.

Philippians 2

[12] Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Do you see where Paul is telling the saints that they are responsible for their own salvation?

Does it say that your pastor will be responsible for your salvation?

No it doesn’t. And neither should you.

I’m trying to say that you are conflating soul and salvation in Hebrews. You are sure that Hebrews 13 is referring to salvation. It is not IMHO.

Hebrews chapter 13 is referring to their life, not salvation. They that rule over you is referring to magisterial government, not church government.

What do you think?

I have actually known saints who believed that their salvation was the responsibility of their pastor. It is an unbelievable misinterpretation of scripture.

Tithesmeister · #**720** 02-21-2020, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coksiw

Do you believe the Pastor is the voice of God in the assembly, and He won’t speak to the assembly thru other ministries as well?

I am using “the”, instead of “a”, in my posts intentionally, meaning “the only one”. I also said in my post “not just the Pastors”. I don’t think you are understanding my point.

Let me quote this again:

[Rom 12:3 NKJV] For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.
[Rom 12:4 NKJV] For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function

This is a timely post. Brother Nic seems to believe that only the pastor has a gift. He is the Apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher, all rolled into one. He invites preachers to sit on the sacred platform and speak from the sacred pulpit. It may be a surprise to Brother Nic, that the pulpit is never mentioned in the NT, and only once in the OT.

How did the NT church ever operate in the gifts of the Spirit without a pulpit?

Or a platform?

Well, they seemed to do okay.

Remarkable.