Virtual church

[shag]

2-3 weeks ago my leader did a fb video, speaking about the church being out of the walls, we are the church, etc,
3 days ago he did one and mentioned “here at the church”, referring to the bldg since he was the only one there, 3-4x in the first 4 mins of the video.
I don’t get it....tradition has its grasp I guess.

Even every New Testament (def:following resurrection) verse besides possibly in Revelation refers to the house of God as the ecclesia, not a bldg. But when God wants to “clean the house of God” he’s talking about our lives not the bathroom at a bldg. Not sure what it’s like everywhere else but here locally leadership is extremely hung up on the bldg being the special place dedicated to God for our gathering....called “our Bethel”, Gods house, house of God, House of the Lord.
It’s so ingrained I’m confident that verbiage will not go away, ever. Even knowing they met in homes for 275 years, won’t change it. Tradition.

Calling the bldg the church is soooooooo common, especially here locally. Probly everywhere I presume...
I believe that little detail is hurting the church.

Who we are, not where we go.

[Amanah]

Are preachers hesitant to be political? Are they wording their messages in a way to avoid being prosecuted for hate speech? Does it have something to do with the bldg?

[jediwill83]

Just me being real here.


I think this is Gods way of kicking some full grown birds out the nest to do what they were supposed to be doing. Not comfortable and a little scary but wow at the spiritual agoraphobia

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Just me being real here.


I think this is Gods way of kicking some full grown birds out the nest to do what they were supposed to be doing. Not comfortable and a little scary but wow at the spiritual agoraphobia

I was just thinking how this would be a great time for Father's to step up and get a message for the family, family prayer, family altar, family ekklesia. It really worries me when men post of this forum asking if anyone knows of a bible study they can teach to win souls, really? seriously?, that is the basic gospel message.

[james34]

For me this situation is alarming , because church to the world=(people -plural, building-with people, or building alone). So when legislation goes forth against gathering publicly it effects both people and building. Obviously when the government put forth the declaration of social distancing/closing of non essential business, this included not just the building but also the people, even bans car congregations.
I'm sure house churches would be shut down if word got out.(probably will eventually happen)
The bottom line is it doesn't matter what we know the church is (the people), it only matters how the world defines what the church is, when it comes to law enforcement and legislation being passed. That definition can change and grow to encompass more of the gathering places or any function wherin the people gather, .....it doesnt matter if it is an easter egg hunt in a field or an ok line live stream service....to the world the existing of the church in any form or any manifestation, becomes to problematic for them to allow its continued free operation and this is the facts according to scripture.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by james34

For me this situation is alarming , because church to the world=(people -plural, building-with people, or building alone). So when legislation goes forth against gathering publicly it effects both people and building. Obviously when the government put forth the declaration of social distancing/closing of non essential business, this included not just the building but also the people, even bans car congregations.
I'm sure house churches would be shut down if word got out.(probably will eventually happen)
The bottom line is it doesn't matter what we know the church is (the people), it only matters how the world defines what the church is, when it comes to law enforcement and legislation being passed. That definition can change and grow to encompass more of the gathering places or any function wherin the people gather, .....it doesnt matter if it is an easter egg hunt in a field or an ok line live stream service....to the world the existing of the church in any form or any manifestation, becomes to problematic for them to allow its continued free operation and this is the facts according to scripture.

Truth

[Barb]

This is going to be rather long, but I have a lot on my heart this morning…

There is something I have never understood about us… I have been AOP prenatal, as well as a forum member since FCF but I just don’t get why we have to pick at each other. Why can’t we see the good a particular thing or action might produce rather than bite and devour each other, and for what? Just because someone’s opinion or method is different than what we are used to, we have to ridicule? I don’t get it…

First of all, I don’t know of anyone who is happy about this situation, and prefers internet services over assembling together. So in my opinion, Hebrews 10 doesn’t even belong in a conversation about today’s situation. Every pastor and every child of God would MUCH rather be in the physical building… but let’s not forget, the building is NOT the Church… it is just the place where we meet. I ought to be able to worship anywhere, under any circumstances because I am the Church.

Secondly, why must we ridicule what another man of God feels to do as he shepherd’s the saints placed in his care by God during this trying time? The accounting for their souls should not be open for discussion on social media… every pastor will stand individually before the Lord to answer for how they handled every situation, including a stay-at-home mandate.

And so some mock ‘virtual’ communion, but why? Because it is not distributed under their watchful care… really?

The Rock Church in Elk Grove is having ‘parking lot service’ Sunday morning, and communion. Each family will bring their own elements… Sis. Wilson demonstrated beautifully online Thursday evening on how to make unleavened bread, followed by a wonderful lesson on communion.

The POA had communion Palm Sunday, and it was beautiful…

Bottom line as I see it from my house... we can discern the Lord's body in our home or front seat of our car. The sanctuary is not what makes it holy...

So in the subject of altar calls and baptism… I’m going to address these together…

What is SO farfetched about making an altar call online? Do churches make altar calls in their regular Live streamed services anyway? Why mock this? People can repent and receive the Holy Ghost anywhere, at anytime.

As for baptism… an Apostolic pastor was teaching an online Bible study recently, and felt led to ask anyone who wanted to be baptized to contact him. Two folks from out of state did, and received instruction from the church staff re the importance/necessity of baptism…

The pastor then called the family, the saved mother took her grown daughter to the bathtub where the pastor prayed over the water, as y’all always do… then he said, ‘according to the confession of your faith, I now baptize you in the Name of the Lord Jesus!’ The girl was immersed with the Name of Jesus called over her!

Dire circumstances call for dire measures… so tell me, what would YOU rather have been done? Wait until she could walk into a brick building where a preacher could put her under? Are we not about the saving of the soul?

As for the UPCI and WPF doing online services… folks are allowed to change their view in order to reach the masses, or don’t you think so?

The 1st century saints didn’t have a keyboard, so maybe we shouldn’t either… is that the mindset here? We read the Bible from a cell phone, and even return a tithe online or text… is any of this wrong? As long as we are not changing the doctrine of salvation and separation unto the Lord, who really should care if they were once against the internet and are now preaching on it?

One more thing… as for this being fake/hoax or whatever… I PERSONALLY know people who have died or were near death due to COVID-19…

Andrew Coffield… 29 year old youth pastor was at death’s door last week. I have known Andrew all of his life, so this is not some celebrity claiming sickness… this is real life, folks. It was extremely critical, but he has since recovered and is home, praise the Lord!

My brother pastors a church in Illinois, and PESONALLY knows several pastors in his state with the virus, including his district superintendent…

My former pastor’s wife from the COOLJC passed last week from complications due to COVID-19…

A UPCI pastor’s wife from Escanaba, MI passed two days from COVID-19…

Two of my nieces work in a nursing home, and have witnessed several residents passing away from COVID-19…

And Pastor Gerald Guevara, longtime missionary to Spain is critical… I have heard him preach several times as Pastor Gerald is closely associated with our local church. He desperately needs our prayers as I write…

It grieves me to think that instead of all of this going back in forth… is it real or a hoax? Do we hibernate until it’s over, maybe erring on the side of caution, or just ignore it… why not join together as one Body in fasting and prayer and leave the bickering to the world?

If Bro. Spell wants to open the doors of the church house the consequences, if any, are his responsibility. If it is a mistake it is on him. And if my pastor preaches tomorrow online, he is doing what he feels is best for us. And I tell you frankly, with my compromised immune system and that of my mother I wouldn’t be there even if the doors were open.

That is NOT fear. That is wisdom.

In the final analysis what are we accomplishing here? Have any of you brought someone to the place of changing their opinion on COVID-19, and the services online deal based solely on your comments? I tell you true, I am not naïve enough to think that my sharing my thoughts this morning will change anyone’s mind…

So in the words of Rodney King, ‘why can’t we all just get along?’ The fact that this is a forum should not excuse the remarks made in these threads. We are one family… God’s family. Right or wrong, who are any of us to stand in judgment against another?

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Barb

This is going to be rather long, but I have a lot on my heart this morning…

There is something I have never understood about us… I have been AOP prenatal, as well as a forum member since FCF but I just don’t get why we have to pick at each other. Why can’t we see the good a particular thing or action might produce rather than bite and devour each other, and for what? Just because someone’s opinion or method is different than what we are used to, we have to ridicule? I don’t get it…

First of all, I don’t know of anyone who is happy about this situation, and prefers internet services over assembling together. So in my opinion, Hebrews 10 doesn’t even belong in a conversation about today’s situation. Every pastor and every child of God would MUCH rather be in the physical building… but let’s not forget, the building is NOT the Church… it is just the place where we meet. I ought to be able to worship anywhere, under any circumstances because I am the Church.

Secondly, why must we ridicule what another man of God feels to do as he shepherd’s the saints placed in his care by God during this trying time? The accounting for their souls should not be open for discussion on social media… every pastor will stand individually before the Lord to answer for how they handled every situation, including a stay-at-home mandate.

And so some mock ‘virtual’ communion, but why? Because it is not distributed under their watchful care… really?

The Rock Church in Elk Grove is having ‘parking lot service’ Sunday morning, and communion. Each family will bring their own elements… Sis. Wilson demonstrated beautifully online Thursday evening on how to make unleavened bread, followed by a wonderful lesson on communion.

The POA had communion Palm Sunday, and it was beautiful…

Bottom line as I see it from my house... we can discern the Lord's body in our home or front seat of our car. The sanctuary is not what makes it holy...

So in the subject of altar calls and baptism… I’m going to address these together…

What is SO farfetched about making an altar call online? Do churches make altar calls in their regular Live streamed services anyway? Why mock this? People can repent and receive the Holy Ghost anywhere, at anytime.

As for baptism… an Apostolic pastor was teaching an online Bible study recently, and felt led to ask anyone who wanted to be baptized to contact him. Two folks from out of state did, and received instruction from the church staff re the importance/necessity of baptism…

The pastor then called the family, the saved mother took her grown daughter to the bathtub where the pastor prayed over the water, as y’all always do… then he said, ‘according to the confession of your faith, I now baptize you in the Name of the Lord Jesus!’ The girl was immersed with the Name of Jesus called over her!

Dire circumstances call for dire measures… so tell me, what would YOU rather have been done? Wait until she could walk into a brick building where a preacher could put her under? Are we not about the saving of the soul?

As for the UPCI and WPF doing online services… folks are allowed to change their view in order to reach the masses, or don’t you think so?

The 1st century saints didn’t have a keyboard, so maybe we shouldn’t either… is that the mindset here? We read the Bible from a cell phone, and even return a tithe online or text… is any of this wrong? As long as we are not changing the doctrine of salvation and separation unto the Lord, who really should care if they were once against the internet and are now preaching on it?

One more thing… as for this being fake/hoax or whatever… I PERSONALLY know people who have died or were near death due to COVID-19…

Andrew Coffield… 29 year old youth pastor was at death’s door last week. I have known Andrew all of his life, so this is not some celebrity claiming sickness… this is real life, folks. It was extremely critical, but he has since recovered and is home, praise the Lord!

My brother pastors a church in Illinois, and PESONALLY knows several pastors in his state with the virus, including his district superintendent…

My former pastor’s wife from the COOLJC passed last week from complications due to COVID-19…

A UPCI pastor’s wife from Escanaba, MI passed two days from COVID-19…

Two of my nieces work in a nursing home, and have witnessed several residents passing away from COVID-19…

And Pastor Gerald Guevara, longtime missionary to Spain is critical… I have heard him preach several times as Pastor Gerald is closely associated with our local church. He desperately needs our prayers as I write…

It grieves me to think that instead of all of this going back in forth… is it real or a hoax? Do we hibernate until it’s over, maybe erring on the side of caution, or just ignore it… why not join together as one Body in fasting and prayer and leave the bickering to the world?

If Bro. Spell wants to open the doors of the church house the consequences, if any, are his responsibility. If it is a mistake it is on him. And if my pastor preaches tomorrow online, he is doing what he feels is best for us. And I tell you frankly, with my compromised immune system and that of my mother I wouldn’t be there even if the doors were open.

That is NOT fear. That is wisdom.

In the final analysis what are we accomplishing here? Have any of you brought someone to the place of changing their opinion on COVID-19, and the services online deal based solely on your comments? I tell you true, I am not naïve enough to think that my sharing my thoughts this morning will change anyone’s mind…

So in the words of Rodney King, ‘why can’t we all just get along?’ The fact that this is a forum should not excuse the remarks made in these threads. We are one family… God’s family. Right or wrong, who are any of us to stand in judgment against another?

Right now...my life and family is in shambles as far as my family outside of my wife and daughter are concerned and health for my wife and work goes...I feel so out of control and lack the ability to move the needle in my life it seems no matter what I do...so when people are freaking out about major world events Im just over here feeling God can take care of His own business and is in control. I have a wife in bad pain, weakness and discomfort, a dad absent and divorced from my mom after 40 years of marriage and no job and its all just really overwhelming so right now I just have to trust that God is God and can handle all this mess and is control....some of you are bound and determined to fit God in your little box...Hes bigger than your box...way bigger and you do yourselves and your Savior a grave disservice not understanding this.

[Monterrey]

Originally Posted by Barb

This is going to be rather long, but I have a lot on my heart this morning…

There is something I have never understood about us… I have been AOP prenatal, as well as a forum member since FCF but I just don’t get why we have to pick at each other. Why can’t we see the good a particular thing or action might produce rather than bite and devour each other, and for what? Just because someone’s opinion or method is different than what we are used to, we have to ridicule? I don’t get it…

First of all, I don’t know of anyone who is happy about this situation, and prefers internet services over assembling together. So in my opinion, Hebrews 10 doesn’t even belong in a conversation about today’s situation. Every pastor and every child of God would MUCH rather be in the physical building… but let’s not forget, the building is NOT the Church… it is just the place where we meet. I ought to be able to worship anywhere, under any circumstances because I am the Church.

Secondly, why must we ridicule what another man of God feels to do as he shepherd’s the saints placed in his care by God during this trying time? The accounting for their souls should not be open for discussion on social media… every pastor will stand individually before the Lord to answer for how they handled every situation, including a stay-at-home mandate.

And so some mock ‘virtual’ communion, but why? Because it is not distributed under their watchful care… really?

The Rock Church in Elk Grove is having ‘parking lot service’ Sunday morning, and communion. Each family will bring their own elements… Sis. Wilson demonstrated beautifully online Thursday evening on how to make unleavened bread, followed by a wonderful lesson on communion.

The POA had communion Palm Sunday, and it was beautiful…

Bottom line as I see it from my house... we can discern the Lord's body in our home or front seat of our car. The sanctuary is not what makes it holy...

So in the subject of altar calls and baptism… I’m going to address these together…

What is SO farfetched about making an altar call online? Do churches make altar calls in their regular Live streamed services anyway? Why mock this? People can repent and receive the Holy Ghost anywhere, at anytime.

As for baptism… an Apostolic pastor was teaching an online Bible study recently, and felt led to ask anyone who wanted to be baptized to contact him. Two folks from out of state did, and received instruction from the church staff re the importance/necessity of baptism…

The pastor then called the family, the saved mother took her grown daughter to the bathtub where the pastor prayed over the water, as y’all always do… then he said, ‘according to the confession of your faith, I now baptize you in the Name of the Lord Jesus!’ The girl was immersed with the Name of Jesus called over her!

Dire circumstances call for dire measures… so tell me, what would YOU rather have been done? Wait until she could walk into a brick building where a preacher could put her under? Are we not about the saving of the soul?

As for the UPCI and WPF doing online services… folks are allowed to change their view in order to reach the masses, or don’t you think so?

The 1st century saints didn’t have a keyboard, so maybe we shouldn’t either… is that the mindset here? We read the Bible from a cell phone, and even return a tithe online or text… is any of this wrong? As long as we are not changing the doctrine of salvation and separation unto the Lord, who really should care if they were once against the internet and are now preaching on it?

One more thing… as for this being fake/hoax or whatever… I PERSONALLY know people who have died or were near death due to COVID-19…

Andrew Coffield… 29 year old youth pastor was at death’s door last week. I have known Andrew all of his life, so this is not some celebrity claiming sickness… this is real life, folks. It was extremely critical, but he has since recovered and is home, praise the Lord!

My brother pastors a church in Illinois, and PESONALLY knows several pastors in his state with the virus, including his district superintendent…

My former pastor’s wife from the COOLJC passed last week from complications due to COVID-19…

A UPCI pastor’s wife from Escanaba, MI passed two days from COVID-19…

Two of my nieces work in a nursing home, and have witnessed several residents passing away from COVID-19…

And Pastor Gerald Guevara, longtime missionary to Spain is critical… I have heard him preach several times as Pastor Gerald is closely associated with our local church. He desperately needs our prayers as I write…

It grieves me to think that instead of all of this going back in forth… is it real or a hoax? Do we hibernate until it’s over, maybe erring on the side of caution, or just ignore it… why not join together as one Body in fasting and prayer and leave the bickering to the world?

If Bro. Spell wants to open the doors of the church house the consequences, if any, are his responsibility. If it is a mistake it is on him. And if my pastor preaches tomorrow online, he is doing what he feels is best for us. And I tell you frankly, with my compromised immune system and that of my mother I wouldn’t be there even if the doors were open.

That is NOT fear. That is wisdom.

In the final analysis what are we accomplishing here? Have any of you brought someone to the place of changing their opinion on COVID-19, and the services online deal based solely on your comments? I tell you true, I am not naïve enough to think that my sharing my thoughts this morning will change anyone’s mind…

So in the words of Rodney King, ‘why can’t we all just get along?’ The fact that this is a forum should not excuse the remarks made in these threads. We are one family… God’s family. Right or wrong, who are any of us to stand in judgment against another?

Sorry that this thread offended you, I do apologize for the offense.

I also am grieved though. I have lived long enough to realize that there has been a cataclysmic change that has happened to the church world. I am honest and saying that I am not happy with it. Sorry if that offends you but it is the truth. My being grieved is as real as your being grieved. Probably neither one of us will change the other.

Don't know who Rodney King is so I can't and won't comment on that paragraph.

Does it not bother you that the physical congregating is now being replaced with the virtual almost real but not really internet church? Do you think Jesus would like that?

Forgive my bluntness but I also am grieved.

[Monterrey]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Here is the deal, even if the bldg. is closed, since we are the church, there is nothing stopping up from joining with family and friends and "having" church.
If anything, this is a wake up call to realize that church is not the building.

I agree with you that the church is the body not the building.

We had three home services this week. Three different locations. Not virtual but real meetings. Each had 15-18 in them.

There was a wonderful move of the Spirit in each one. I do believe in them.

My issue here is the virtual … that gets me I guess.