Sermon on the mountain

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Take no thought for tomorrow for instance

"take no thought".

The Young Literal Translation says: "be not anxious for", other translations say "do not be worried about".

That doesn't sound to me much as a hyperbole. It sounds to me like describing a state of mind. The Bible encourages you in other areas to make plans for the future, which is wisdom. Of course acknowledging God, seeking his counsel, and being open to changes as God wants to. Making a plan and working on it a little bit every day (or every so often) is OK, but the state of mind of being worry (or fearing) is a different story.

Now, the "tomorrow" could be a seen as figure of speech, or simply using the broader sense of the word.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Thanks! I'm reading a book by Tolstoy, "The Kingdom of God Is Within You" and he is making an awesome case for non violent resistance. He inspired Ghandi and Martin Luther King.

I think non violent resistance worked for Ghandi because the British were basically decent people. Whereas, Bonhoeffer abandoned resistance and attempted to assassinate Hitler because Nazism had no respect for life

Mahatma Ghandi is one of the patron saints of the non-violent approach.

The prominent race can remain so by preventing the native from arming himself.

Comments on a court case in The Indian Opinion (25 March 1905)

Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest. If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle classes render voluntary help to Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn.

From a leaflet urging Indians to serve with the British Army in World War I, Part V, Chapter 27, Recruiting Campaign

You may very well have a problem accepting that Ghandi said that. You may then claim that Ghandi wrote this before he committed himself to non-violence. In this you are right in fact, but you must also consider the outcome predicted by Ghandi, the consequences he was willing to accept:

I want you to fight Nazism without arms, or, if I am to retain the military terminology, with non-violent arms. I would like you to lay down the arms you have as being useless for saving you or humanity. You will invite Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini to take what they want of the countries you call your possessions. Let them take possession of your beautiful island, with your many beautiful buildings. You will give all these, but neither your souls, nor your minds. If these gentlemen choose to occupy your homes, you will vacate them. If they do not give you free passage out, you will allow yourself, man, woman and child, to be slaughtered,

Ghandi is very specific here. He knows the consequences of a non-violent response to a violent aggressor. Choosing the path of non-violence means accepting that you will allow yourself, man, woman and child, to be slaughtered.
...

It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. Violence is any day preferable to impotence.
Non-Violence in Peace and War (1948)

https://yotg.wordpress.com/2013/10/0...n-gun-control/

[Amanah]

Thank you! Non violent resistance is the last resort for a country under occupation.
Such as Israel under Roman occupation, or India under British occupation.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by coksiw

You will be surprised of how many opinion you will find here and anywhere about that.

I notice that in the argumentation, you tend to see the following errors:

1) Lack of understanding what "biblical meekness" is. Many people can't define it right.
2) Erroneously generalizing things without comprehending that the elects are always going to be a tiny minority. For example, "if everybody thinks like you, then" to point out the absurdity of a thought. We have a different calling and we will always be a minority.

Even among those that get point 1 and 2 right, you will find a variety of opinions.

I believe the answer is found in a song long ago, “to be like Jesus....”

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Does Jesus's teaching of non violence in Matthew condemn the state industrial military complex as unjustified?

Should Christian's be conscientious objectors in unjust wars?

Does pledging allegiance to the Republic and participating in it's advantages obligate one to defend it?

How does a Christian establish the Kingdom on earth as it is in heaven?

When will Jesus kingdom be established? when will the wicked be annihilated?

#3 Daniel 3 "When we play the music, worship and give allegiance to the image"


Sounds like an anthem and a pledge to me...

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

#3 Daniel 3 "When we play the music, worship and give allegiance to the image"


Sounds like an anthem and a pledge to me...

Similar to the standards of the Roman Legion?

[Amanah]

I was born at West Point, my Son was 82nd Airborne,
I have the utmost respect for those who serve and defend.
I'm just a bit dissillutioned with the direction we are headed.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I believe the answer is found in a song long ago, “to be like Jesus....”

Meekness is having the Sword and knowing when and how to use it...remember Jesus driving out the money changers and lifting up His voice to call out sin, injustice and oppression?


Its amazing how we have been effectively spiritually nuetered by being encouraged to adopt this passive compliance to tyranny.


David said,"I look unto the hills whence cometh my help, my help cometh from the Lord"


But is that verse really taking into account the reality of the indwelling Spirit of Christ in the believer?


Look at Christ in all His aspects and personality and not just the submission to His executioners...remember...He laid His life down willingly and took it back up...thats power and extreme self control to bring about the goal of intentional death for a specific purpose....this was not victimhood...this was self sacrifice.


What does your proposed meekness accomplish in its commonly thought of definition other than martrydom which effectively limits the number of Spirit filled people that could be working as His hands and feet?


Sacrifice for the sake of sacrifice?


HIS INTENTIONAL PHYSICAL sacrifice brought life because YOURS could not...wherefore*I used wherefore because I have this fascination with seeing how many times I can get Ndavid to accuse me of bloviating in my posts, you're just collateral damage in this experiement....apologies* do you promote that MY sacrifice, which does NOT bring life, like its to be a desired for virtue?


The Earth groans not for more DEAD sons of God but MANIFESTED sons of God and if I am a co heir with Christ then I am also a son and the son to be the son in not just name only is called to do the works of his Father and apparently those works include occasionally braiding whips and turning over tables and commiting physical violence when appropriate.


Let me ask you this....who best to wield the sword?


A military and government from the kindgom of man that has NOT the spirit of God or a Spirit filled fully submitted to the will of the Father example of Christ?


Why have we delegated that power to others?


We are perfectly fine with delegating and handing that over to they that HEAVILY pervert the course of justice while muttering Romans 13 and turn around and smear someone who should be seen as a brother or sister over the lack of uniformity which is actually setting yourself as the pinnacle example of haviour and denigrating those that dont measure up.


Sometimes the Shepherd needs to tear a lamb out of the jaws of a lion...sometimes you gotta fight a bear...it is the strong desire to right wrongs, while at the same time healing the wounded.


It is a balanced, appropriate and measured response and sometimes the appropriate response is indeed...well...violent.



Hey Ndavid...let me know how my bloviating worked on your end ok?



Here to help buddy! I got lots of time to help a fellow brother out.

[diakonos]

So now we have apostolics wielding guns... not swords. AFF

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by diakonos

So now we have apostolics wielding guns... not swords. AFF

Guns are just the swords of the present day. They are tool which can be used for defense or offense, they care not which. It's up the wielder what the intent will be. As for me, I've carried for 3 1/2 years now, and I do so every day. What's wrong with that?