Interesting Trinitarian Statement - trithestic?

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Ferd

MOW, in very simple terms, and repeating myself. In my view if you aren’t following the Apostles doctrine with is encapsulated in Peter’s sermon in Acts 2, then repeated in Acts 4, 8 (twice), 10 and 19 (did I get them all?)

Then you are not saved. The doctrine of the Trinity has led more people into a false sense of salvation than any other practice within the realm of Christendom. Therefore you can call it a doctrine of devils or you can call it Satan’s greatest tool, or you can call it the Great Lie or The Great Delusion. What ever you call it, the doctrine of the trinity is heresy and damnable.

******EXAMPLE COMING*********************
Fred in the OT is was wrong to eat unclean meat, right? And when showed the sheet full of meat He the things were unclean. God said do not call things unclean when I have made them clean. There are people that feel eating pork and others to still be wrong some see it as being ok. So which ones are right? The one that see it the old way or the new? Do the old ones see it as the new ones are going to hell?

It would be a misunderstanding of God now wants. The old timers would have a misconception that eating pork is wrong. When infact it is not. Does the devil use pork to send anyone to hell? The devil tries to twist God word, i.e. Adam and Eve. But to say that the devil will use the written word and trick people into going to being saved a certain way is crazy. Infact saying such is heresy itself.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

OK, so a person gets baptized in Jesus' name, receives the HG lives a holy life and loves God will all their heart, soul, mind and strength and still believes the doctrine of the trinity simply because they don't have the revelation yet.......You're saying they're as lost as a goose in a snowstorm?

Is this person praying individually to the Father and then to the Son and then to the Holy Spirit?

A woman who has attended Trinitarian churches for years has recently come to my church because God told her to. I gave her a Bible study on some basic things that my pastor put together. When we got to the teaching on Oneness, she understood it and saw it easily. She said that is what she has always believed. I don't think all Trinitarians understand what the doctrine of the Trinity entails which would mean they didn't believe a lie and didn't worship God as a lie or false God.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Ferd

I believe that the doctrine of the trinity is the devils single greatest weapon. It is delusion on the grandest scale and has caused more people to go to hell than any other thing that has ever come to us.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

A very good discussion of the use of the word persons is found in Chan's book. I will submit a shameless plug for it here. I have it and read it. I think it is worth mentioning here. Chan certainly has deep roots in Oneness doctrine and his handling of the controversial "persons" is worth the read.

I do think it very true that most Trinitarians don't know what Oneness beliefs are and vice versa...notice I said most and not all.

I have the book. I've only read the first chapter, but I plan on finishing it sometime.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I know God is not triune.

Andrew Urshan’s ruminations on the Godhead frequently were expressed in categories such as ‘tri–unity’, the ‘blessed three–ness of God’, and ‘God as a triune being......

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Andrew Urshan’s ruminations on the Godhead frequently were expressed in categories such as ‘tri–unity’, the ‘blessed three–ness of God’, and ‘God as a triune being......

But what does the Bible say?

All of the oneness folks in the early part of the last century came out of Trinitarian churches. They had to unlearn some things as they came into more of the truth of who God is. I've never read anything AU has written but what he believes in no way changes what I understand from the scriptures.

Can you show me a clear teaching of the doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible?

[ManOfWord]

The doctrine of the trinity as defined by tri-theism or three actual PERSONS as we understand the word persons, is unbiblical and erroneous.

However, to ascribe eternal damnation to a person who has not received something that ONLY God can give, IMO, is worse than the doctrine in question. Remember, we're not talking about people living in licenciousness or wanton sin. We're talking about people who have been transformed by the word of God and multitudes even filled with His Spirit. Many of these have even been baptized in Jesus' name even though they don't completely understand why.

I'm all for walking in more and more truth, but to proclaim that these people are hell-bound, I believe, is to add to the word of God. That is VERY dangerous ground to be standing on, for sure. That is ground that I am not willing to defend, stand on or even give credence to one iota.

We need to be careful that we view our "dogma" through scripture and not scripture through dogma.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Is this person praying individually to the Father and then to the Son and then to the Holy Spirit?

A woman who has attended Trinitarian churches for years has recently come to my church because God told her to. I gave her a Bible study on some basic things that my pastor put together. When we got to the teaching on Oneness, she understood it and saw it easily. She said that is what she has always believed. I don't think all Trinitarians understand what the doctrine of the Trinity entails which would mean they didn't believe a lie and didn't worship God as a lie or false God.

It should not matter. I know people that are oneness, but pray to the heavenly father. But they pray for people in Jesus name.

On your second point...I agree here with you. I had a very indepth discussion with a baptist pastors wife about the oneness view and receiving the HG. She did not understand the need for the tongues, but on the oneness view she said that they all believe it that way. I think that our misunderstanding of the "trinitarian" belief is charge by what alot of our misunderstanding preachers preach. The only leg the misunderstanding preachers have to stand on is that alot of "trinitarians" do not think the name for God is Jesus. Our beliefs are not as different as some here on AFF try to make it seem. Saying that the "trinitarians" serve another Jesus, etc. that is all craziness made up by a miseducated oneness believer.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

The doctrine of the trinity as defined by tri-theism or three actual PERSONS as we understand the word persons, is unbiblical and erroneous.

However, to ascribe eternal damnation to a person who has not received something that ONLY God can give, IMO, is worse than the doctrine in question. Remember, we're not talking about people living in licenciousness or wanton sin. We're talking about people who have been transformed by the word of God and multitudes even filled with His Spirit. Many of these have even been baptized in Jesus' name even though they don't completely understand why.

I'm all for walking in more and more truth, but to proclaim that these people are hell-bound, I believe, is to add to the word of God. That is VERY dangerous ground to be standing on, for sure. That is ground that I am not willing to defend, stand on or even give credence to one iota.

We need to be careful that we view our "dogma" through scripture and not scripture through dogma.

I'm not proclaiming that Trinitarians are hell bound. But I do have a reasonable doubt according to the word of God.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

It should not matter. I know people that are oneness, but pray to the heavenly father. But they pray for people in Jesus name.

I'm not sure what your point is. Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I pray to God calling on the name of Jesus or calling Him, Jesus.

On your second point...I agree here with you. I had a very indepth discussion with a baptist pastors wife about the oneness view and receiving the HG. She did not understand the need for the tongues, but on the oneness view she said that they all believe it that way. I think that our misunderstanding of the "trinitarian" belief is charge by what alot of our misunderstanding preachers preach. The only leg the misunderstanding preachers have to stand on is that alot of "trinitarians" do not think the name for God is Jesus. Our beliefs are not as different as some here on AFF try to make it seem. Saying that the "trinitarians" serve another Jesus, etc. that is all craziness made up by a miseducated oneness believer.

The big deal is with Trinitarians who say Jesus is the second person in the Godhead. There is a huge difference in saying Jesus a second person of God or God himself. Many Trinitarians think we as Oneness believers serve another Jesus and that we are lost because of it. They say we deny the Son of God, meaning the eternal Son of God. If God is one being who can say 'I AM' and does not consist of three persons, don't you think He might care that his children know this truth about him?