Interesting Trinitarian Statement - trithestic?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Ideally I would say yes!

a.) The first act of a new believer is to be baptised

b.) A new believer should be calling on His name several times a day

c.) Any ceremony and especially baptism, should have an invocation where those present should call on God through Jesus Christ.

I mostly agree ....

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I mostly agree ....

I better take a break.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

However, when you begin to really know and begin to pray with some of these folks who you are convinced are lost and find out that they really have a relationship with Jesus Christ (correct understanding or not) you realize that your beliefs don't jive with reality. I'm not talking about "nice" people. I'm talking about godly people; Christian people; HG filled people. Their relationship with God cannot be denied due to the fruit that is evident in their lives. Jesus stated that we would know them by their fruits.

I know wonderful people who love God and his word who aren't Oneness and who aren't Spirit-filled either. I wouldn't even attempt to tell them that they don't have a relationship with God because they do.

To label all or even most trinitarians influenced by demons or state that they are willfully rejecting truth, IMO, is just not correct. We ALL have our areas where truth needs to shine more brightly just like the trinitarians we so easily castigate. What makes my area of need any less than theirs?

The doctrine they espouse is a doctrine fabricated by devils, the person who believes it is influenced by the devil because they are believing a lie. I believe Trinitarians are decieved by this doctrine and the Father of lies maintains this deception. IOW, their minds are darkened to the truth.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by sola gratia

I know I owe you a post on the other issue. But let me jump in here for a second. Realize in the time of Jesus, there where many with the name of Jesus. In fact you’ll notice the tags of designation applied for clarity
Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God
of Nazareth
This important point of delineation was provided to distinguish Jesus Christ from the many other men named Jesus of that time.

I've discussed this issue on CARM with a Trinitarian who I feel devalues the name of the Lord by saying it was a common name at the time of Christ. That may be true but the name of Jesus was given to the Son of God by God. Did these others who were called Jesus get their name by a direct command of God? Here is a well- written article by Dr Segraves about the name of Jesus that I found on this site: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...5&postcount=89

The point of contention is this. We do all things through the authority of Jesus… His righteousness, His holiness, His blood, and so on… therefore this works fine with J-Roc’s conclusion – we do not find life though His name,

STOP right there. But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. You have just denied the word of God. If you don't believe John meant what he said then you need to explain and not dismiss the word of God so easily to say it does not mean what it expressly says. We have life through his name. How?

for many shall call “Lord – Lord” but they do not know Him.

If you find this verse contradictory with the above verse then please explain.

How can we have life through the name of Jesus? There is no other name given under heaven whereby we MUST be saved. When is this name applicable to salvation and eternal life? What did Peter say in Acts 2:38?
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Calling on the name of Jesus at water baptism invokes the One who answers to that name who remits our sins/circumcises our hearts. Romans 2:29, Col 2:11, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16

Now how do you tie in those who Jesus didn't know on judgement day, those who did not obey the will of the Father, Matt 7:21, with the verse that says we have life through his name?

We find life through His cross, and His resurrection, and the impartation of the Holy Spirit. Therefore life does come through His power and authority, not merely the vocalization of His name… right?

Yes, all of those things and Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. and Acts 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

You cannot lightly dismiss the vocalization of his name.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by H2H

No not two authorities... Redundant is apparantly not of concern in Pentecost. I have heard people say "In Jesus Name" or "Hallelujah!" dozens of times in one single prayer.

So then if it's the same authority isn't it like saying "I baptize you in jesus name in jesus name"?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

how is it contradictory? it all represents God...

I am maintaining peace and removing a reason for you guys to fight....

If it's two different things it's contradictory I mean. In otherwords if there is an authority/name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost and then there is an authority/name of Jesus that's two different authorities. If they the same then it's redundant, Redundant Redu...oh never mind

[Praxeas]

Not only did the angel name the Son...he gave a reason "For he shall save his people from their sins"...it's then a saving name as Peter said in Acts

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I know wonderful people who love God and his word who aren't Oneness and who aren't Spirit-filled either. I wouldn't even attempt to tell them that they don't have a relationship with God because they do.



The doctrine they espouse is a doctrine fabricated by devils, the person who believes it is influenced by the devil because they are believing a lie. I believe Trinitarians are decieved by this doctrine and the Father of lies maintains this deception. IOW, their minds are darkened to the truth.

I agree that the devil is the father of lies and that trinitarianism does not paint the correct "picture" of God and therefore is a distortion of truth.

However, for the record, it is trinitarians who have evangelized this world far more than oneness folks have. Far more trinitarians have given their lives for the gospel than oneness folks have. Most of the Christian literature has been written by trinitarian authors, and much of it is very good.

It amazes me what God can do with a bunch of people who are influenced by demons.

There are MANY in oneness "camps" who are just as deluded as they accuse these folks of being....just in different areas. I believe the godhead is an extremely important area, but apparently God does not have the same problem hanging around them as some of us do. Interesting, isn't it?

Their minds are darkened to truth, yet we trust them to create the canon of the Bible? So God guided them in creating the bible, but maybe he was on the phone or something when they created trinitarianism?

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

Their minds are darkened to truth, yet we trust them to create the canon of the Bible? So God guided them in creating the bible, but maybe he was on the phone or something when they created trinitarianism?

Isn't that interesting, Sheltiedad? Good observation....