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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #201  
Old 06-19-2007, 12:05 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Originally Posted by H2H View Post
Thanks! As stated earlier this information is not getting to most laypersons. They need to be teaching this at Evangel College and the local baptist churches.
How would this change the fundamental belief by Trinitarians that the Son is eternal and throughout eternity the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost existed as God with the ability to commune, love, and individually acknowledge the other as not being themselves. The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, but these are not the other. There are three (whatever you want to call them ie: persons, personas, substitinences) who can each say "I AM".
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  #202  
Old 06-19-2007, 12:11 PM
Nahum Nahum is offline
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From the AOG website statement of faith:

The One True God
The one true God has revealed Himself as the eternally self-existent "I AM," the Creator of heaven and earth and the Redeemer of mankind. He has further revealed Himself as embodying the principles of relationship and association as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

The Adorable Godhead

a. Terms Defined
The terms "Trinity" and "persons" as related to the Godhead, while not found in the Scriptures, are words in harmony with Scripture, whereby we may convey to others our immediate understanding of the doctrine of Christ respecting the Being of God, as distinguished from "gods many and lords many." We therefore may speak with propriety of the Lord our God who is One Lord, as a trinity or as one Being of three persons, and still be absolutely scriptural.

b. Distinction and Relationship in the Godhead
Christ taught a distinction of Persons in the Godhead which He expressed in specific terms of relationship, as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but that this distinction and relationship, as to its mode is inscrutable and incomprehensible, because unexplained.


c. Unity of the One Being of Father, Son and Holy Spirit
Accordingly, therefore, there is that in the Father which constitutes him the Father and not the Son; there is that in the Son which constitutes Him the Son and not the Father; and there is that in the Holy Spirit which constitutes Him the Holy Spirit and not either the Father or the Son. Wherefore the Father is the Begetter, the Son is the Begotten, and the Holy Spirit is the one proceeding from the Father and the Son. Therefore, because these three persons in the Godhead are in a state of unity, there is but one Lord God Almighty and His name one.


d. Identity and Cooperation in the Godhead
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are never identical as to Person; nor confused as to relation; nor divided in respect to the Godhead; nor opposed as to cooperation. The Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son as to relationship. The Son is with the Father and the Father is with the Son, as to fellowship. The Father is not from the Son, but the Son is from the Father, as to authority. The Holy Spirit is from the Father and the Son proceeding, as to nature, relationship, cooperation and authority. Hence, neither Person in the Godhead either exists or works separately or independently of the others.



Don't tell me they don't hold to the concept of PERSONS!!!!!!!!
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  #203  
Old 06-19-2007, 12:11 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Originally Posted by JTULLOCK View Post
Just as alot of oneness people think the doctrine of the trinity is damnable, because that is what we are taught, they do it the same way. They are taught the we deny the Sonship of Jesus, etc. Of course we don't, but that does not stop them from being taught we do.
It think the doctrine of the Trinity is from seducing spirits not because someone told me but because I've searched this doctrine out on my own. We aren't all as gullible as you make us out to be. We are the ones who are responsible for knowing what is true. The ministry can only go so far.
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His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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  #204  
Old 06-19-2007, 12:15 PM
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H2H H2H is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
How would this change the fundamental belief by Trinitarians that the Son is eternal and throughout eternity the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost existed as God with the ability to commune, love, and individually acknowledge the other as not being themselves. The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, but these are not the other. There are three (whatever you want to call them ie: persons, personas, substitinences) who can each say "I AM".
Because definitions define doctrine. Some of these beliefs are debated and bantered about even under the Oneness umberella.
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  #205  
Old 06-19-2007, 12:16 PM
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Jack Shephard Jack Shephard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
It think the doctrine of the Trinity is from seducing spirits not because someone told me but because I've searched this doctrine out on my own. We aren't all as gullible as you make us out to be. We are the ones who are responsible for knowing what is true. The ministry can only go so far.
No you are wrong. If we are responsible for knowing the truth and spreading the gospel and we can only do so much then God would never come back. When His name is preached to the whole world then the end will come.

Were you "seduced" into almost believing in the Trinity? Who seduced you? This thing is not about seduction. You see it or you don't. You see things are right or you don't. It is that simple.
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  #206  
Old 06-19-2007, 12:25 PM
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sola gratia sola gratia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster View Post
Dishonesty in debate serves no one.

Does anyone here deny that trinitarian dogma defines God as "One God in three persons, coequal, coexistent, and coeternal"?

It is a tenant of their faith. Come on folks. Let's be real here.


YOU JUMP TO QUICKLY!
and that is not an attractive trait.... I never said I disagreed with the term, or that the term was going to be thrown out... I said it is a qualified term!!!!!!! I supported that with an article

I take no issue with the term PERSONS...in the proper context....

oneness have their terms as well.... anyone want to define what "holiness" means to your typical apostolic? If she does not follow holiness it means she does not follow the standards

same with persons it is a qualified term
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  #207  
Old 06-19-2007, 12:37 PM
Nahum Nahum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sola gratia View Post

YOU JUMP TO QUICKLY!
and that is not an attractive trait.... I never said I disagreed with the term, or that the term was going to be thrown out... I said it is a qualified term!!!!!!! I supported that with an article

I take no issue with the term PERSONS...in the proper context....

oneness have their terms as well.... anyone want to define what "holiness" means to your typical apostolic? If she does not follow holiness it means she does not follow the standards

same with persons it is a qualified term
It is not attractive to deny what trinitarianism actually is. How can we even debate when you deny that they mean what they say? If a word has no meaning, why use it?

They absolutely believe that "persons" means distinct individuals. Did you read what I posted from the AOG website?
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  #208  
Old 06-19-2007, 12:39 PM
SDG SDG is offline
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News flash ... words have multiple meanings!!!
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  #209  
Old 06-19-2007, 12:44 PM
Nahum Nahum is offline
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Did anyone actually read what our trinitarian friends say they believe persons means?

b. Distinction and Relationship in the Godhead
Christ taught a distinction of Persons in the Godhead which He expressed in specific terms of relationship, as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but that this distinction and relationship, as to its mode is inscrutable and incomprehensible, because unexplained.


c. Unity of the One Being of Father, Son and Holy Spirit
Accordingly, therefore, there is that in the Father which constitutes him the Father and not the Son; there is that in the Son which constitutes Him the Son and not the Father; and there is that in the Holy Spirit which constitutes Him the Holy Spirit and not either the Father or the Son. Wherefore the Father is the Begetter, the Son is the Begotten, and the Holy Spirit is the one proceeding from the Father and the Son. Therefore, because these three persons in the Godhead are in a state of unity, there is but one Lord God Almighty and His name one.


d. Identity and Cooperation in the Godhead
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are never identical as to Person; nor confused as to relation; nor divided in respect to the Godhead; nor opposed as to cooperation. The Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son as to relationship. The Son is with the Father and the Father is with the Son, as to fellowship. The Father is not from the Son, but the Son is from the Father, as to authority. The Holy Spirit is from the Father and the Son proceeding, as to nature, relationship, cooperation and authority. Hence, neither Person in the Godhead either exists or works separately or independently of the others.
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  #210  
Old 06-19-2007, 12:45 PM
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Ferd Ferd is offline
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maybe im standing over here by myself. but my biggest problem with the doctrine of the trinity is that it causes a false sense of salvation.

I can live with the existance of PCI Apostolics because at the end of the day, they believe that the saved will be baptized and recive the HG.

trinitarians by and large are seperated from the Acts experience by their doctrine.
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