Is the Son eternal?

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

It's impossible for someody to become eternal or to as you put it; 'be eternal now.' Possibly yoru confusing the terms immortal with eternal, a mortal being can become immortal, but nobody can become eternal as eternity implies both no beginning and no ending, whilst immotal implies no ending.

I know that better than most. but why argu the point, if Jesus is or was an eternal being. He is not going to go away anytime soon.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

I'm puzzled as to how so many Oneness folk can say that the Son or the Sonship came into existance at bethlehem, and so they vhermently deny that the Son is eternal, yet in their next breath they'll say that the Son is Yahweh, although other Oneness folk dey this and claim that he's either just a manifestation of Yahweh or else he's a man in whom Yahweh indwells. What do the people in this room believe, do you hold to any of these three views or to another view?

For my part, as a God can' change being immutible; 'for I am God I change not' (Malachi 3:6), Yahweh God must therefore be both eternal and immutible, so if the Son is Yahweh God and I certainly do believe that, then he must be eternal and immutible. For that matter I apply every divine attribute to the Son, as I don't believe that the Son can exist as Yahweh and yet not possess every divine attributes.

Question for you. If you enter Eternity will you be Eternal or remember a beginning? Once you enter Eternity will you not then take on Eternity. Thus in Eternity having no beginning and no end?

So did Jesus take on Eternity or was he from Eternity?

Would it not make sense that Eternity met time at the Birth of Jesus Christ.

Being both born of a woman and begotten and her being overshadowed by the Holy Spirit.

Thus Christ being God with us...

Just a question not my personal belief.

Originally Posted by mfblume

I do not believe the Son is eternal. But I do not beleive trinity either. Sorry.

Why do you feel the need to apologize for what you don't believe?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Chan

Why do you feel the need to apologize for what you don't believe?

I do not apologize for what I do not believe. I apologize to you because I simply disagree with you and what you might think of me as a resuilt. IOW, sorry, but I cannot agree with you.

[mfblume]

Iron Bladder, when you are you going to answer about your thoughts concerning the question if "red" is an apple? Come on, man. Say something.

Originally Posted by mfblume

I do not apologize for what I do not believe. I apologize to you because I simply disagree with you and what you might think of me as a resuilt. IOW, sorry, but I cannot agree with you.

I don't expect you to agree with me and have no interest in trying to get you to agree with me.

I have no opinion of you as a person since I don't know you. I may find your partial preterism and your spiritualizing of scripture after the likes of Origen and Clement of Alexandria to be damnable heresies but I have no basis on which to form an opinion of you.

Originally Posted by mfblume

I do not believe the Son is eternal. But I do not beleive trinity either. Sorry.

In that case how would you answer John 17:5 and 24 (re 'Son' at verse 1), Hebrews 1:2 and Colossians 1:13-18 all of which use the word 'SON' and states that the Son existed and did things as the Son (thoughts can't do things) from before the creation?

Originally Posted by Neckstadt

I know that better than most. but why argu the point, if Jesus is or was an eternal being. He is not going to go away anytime soon.

The point is that Jesus is the Son: ‘Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.’ (2nd John 3, KJV). And if he's eternal then being the Son he's eternally the Son. Pleasre explain John 17:5 and 24 re the word 'Son' at verse 1 as well as Hebrews 1:2 and Colossians 1:13-18, all of which state that the Son as the Son, did things as the Son from before the creation of the universe. May I also point out that thoughts or plans can't do things!

[KwaiQ]

Thoughts can do things if God is in it.

Originally Posted by mfblume

I NEVER SAID THE HOLY GHOST MANIFESTATION DID NOT EXIST BEFORE THE INCARNATION. Neither do I believe it. The Holy Ghost is a manifestation that existed long before incarnation!

OK Mr Blume, but what do you mean by this? Are you saying that God existed together with a manifestation of himself as Holy Spirit from before the incarnation? If so then take Psalm 51:11 by way of example: ‘And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.’ (Psalm 51:11, NKJV). David here prays to God and yet mentions somebody else namely the Holy Spirit, existing at the very same time, how would you explain this without seeing God as extant as both the one to whom David prays and also as the one indwelling David? The pronoun ‘Your’ at Psalm 51:11 can’t imply one person.

Secondly, if you agree with me that God exists as both Father and Holy Spirit from long before the incarnation, then why is it such a problem for you to also accept that God can also exist as both the Father and the Son from before the incarnation? How would you explain verses such as Hebrews 1:2, Colossians 1:16-17 re ‘Son’ at verse 13 and John 17:5 and 17:24 re the words ‘Father and Son’ at verse 1? For at each of these verses the Son is said to do something as the Son from before the creation of the universe. Nobody in this forum has at yet explained these verses to me.