Have we lost respect for the ministry?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Looks like the individual decided to expose what he was doing behind everyone’s back. Guys (or gals) who are shady, usually expose themselves sooner or later. Respect is earned in life. I don’t care what you call yourself. If you claim to deadlift 500lbs, there is only one way to prove it. You have to do it. We are always critiqued at what we do. Not matter if you are a preacher, the butcher, the baker, or the candle stick maker. You are always under the watchful eye of the people. You might think you are getting away with it, but sooner or later your mask will slip.

I don’t lose respect for the ministry. I respect the ministry. I’ll lose respect when you keep claiming to lift when you can’t. Earn respect, do the hard work, and always keep in mind you are being watched. Because who you are in the dark is really who you are.

I like this.

Luke.12

[48] But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Ponder this passage.

[Amanah]

In the case of adultery they are no longer qualified for ministry: 1 Timothy 3:1-13

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

I have respect for the ministry as well and always given grace, but some lines do need to be drawn. I think that's what you're saying. If so, I agree.

Am I missing something? Lines? Is this guy still in the pulpit?

Lines are drawn, they are spelled out in the scripture. I started a thread on Robert Morris stepping down from the pulpit. Reason given is because he is a child molester. There's a line. Tony Evans stepped down from his pulpit. It was cited he did it for an "unknown" sin. I guess the sin is "unknown " to his congregation, and radio audience. But not to the other elders of his mega church. Hence, the reason he vacated his position of minister. James Welch a pastor here in Fort Lauderdale had to vacate his position because of issues of finances. Bob Coy mega church pastor in Fort Lauderdale left the church he started here in Fort Lauderdale. Because he couldn't stop sleeping with his parishioners. Some of his church people wanted him to stay. The reason they gave is because God forgives. Yet, the people on the board who run the show, didn't agree with keeping Bob Coy employed.

Truthseeker, may I ask you to clarify what you are asking us?

Is this preacher friend of your's still flipping pages on the platform?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I like this.

Luke.12

[48] But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Ponder this passage.

Ponder the passage? Brother, if some preacher is involved in fornication he already had time to ponder passages. Now, all he can do is contemplate them on the tree of woe.

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

I know a situation where the asst pastor is married to a woman he ran off with when he was a pastor of a church. I think he holds a upc license. I've seen other things by ministers as well but still allowed to keep a license and preach. This leads me my question, have we lost respect for the ministry?
Do we not protect and respect the ministry by being selective who is allowed to minister? We teach to honor and respect ministers, but does it not make it harder when questionable men in questionable scenarios are allowed in it? Seems like ministers themselves are losing respect for the office, not just people.


Would you agree a pastor that married the woman he ran off with is disqualified from any ministerial position?

The pastor ran off with a woman and he or she or both were married.
He now is an assistant pastor.

Correct?


I know of a situation where a pastor in the AA had an affair. We will call him pastor Joe. He stopped pastoring. I have no details as to whether or not he stepped down on his own, or if the organization stepped in. His wife forgave him. They are still married.

He and his family began to attend the neighboring Pentecostal church. After several months he was allowed to play music on the platform. This didn’t sit well with some people.

A member of the church started a petition to HAVE A MEETING to discuss the situation. People met at the pastors office. We will call him pastor John. When the woman who started the petition handed it to pastor John he tore it up and tossed it into the trash can. He told her that she was stripped of all her positions in the church. She was a youth leader and a Sunday school teacher.
A man screamed that he will stand by pastor John and however he allows pastor Joe to minister.

The current assistant pastor stepped down. He and his wife began to have church in their home. Other families left over the situation. The man that screamed he would stand by pastor John, he and his family left months after that.

Joe went from musician to assistant pastor. When pastor John died a few years later, you guessed it, assistant pastor Joe is now pastor Joe.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

I know a situation where the asst pastor is married to a woman he ran off with when he was a pastor of a church. I think he holds a upc license. I've seen other things by ministers as well but still allowed to keep a license and preach. This leads me my question, have we lost respect for the ministry?
Do we not protect and respect the ministry by being selective who is allowed to minister? We teach to honor and respect ministers, but does it not make it harder when questionable men in questionable scenarios are allowed in it? Seems like ministers themselves are losing respect for the office, not just people.


Would you agree a pastor that married the woman he ran off with is disqualified from any ministerial position?

I guess my question would be, why would he be disqualified for being a minister, or a Pastor?

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I guess my question would be, why would he be disqualified for being a minister, or a Pastor?

Adultery

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by diakonos

Adultery

I guess I should’ve asked if adultery disqualifies you from being a minister? Can a man or women that has committed adultery be restored and able to minister themselves once again?

Also, if it does, then does that mean a man or women that has lusted against another does that act disqualify them from being a minister? Because the Lord said that was adultery in their spirit.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I guess I should’ve asked if adultery disqualifies you from being a minister? Can a man or women that has committed adultery be restored and able to minister themselves once again?

Also, if it does, then does that mean a man or women that has lusted against another does that act disqualify them from being a minister? Because the Lord said that was adultery in their spirit.

Would 1 Timothy 3:1-13 apply to the situation?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I guess I should’ve asked if adultery disqualifies you from being a minister? Can a man or women that has committed adultery be restored and able to minister themselves once again?

A pastor runs off with someone else's wife? Or dumps his own wife to run off with his mistress? And gets "restored" to be pastor again? I just don't see that being an option. It's part of why religion is such a mess these days.

Also, if it does, then does that mean a man or women that has lusted against another does that act disqualify them from being a minister? Because the Lord said that was adultery in their spirit.

The church can not keep an eye on what's going in people's heads. There is no way to enforce such a thing in the church, any more than there was a way to enforce the 10th commandment back in the old days. Therefore such a situation would have to be handled by God Himself.

There is also a clear difference between someone coveting another's wife as an individual act or moment on the one hand, and someone actually going through with it and wrecking at least one home and probably several, with damage results lasting basically the rest of those people's lives, not to mention the damage done to any kids who may be involved in the train wreck caused by such a person.

So, no. If a guy wrecks homes and runs off with his whore then no, he doesn't get to cry tears and get his job back. Sorry (but not sorry, too bad).

Is that harsh? Well, is it harsher than destroying families?

How does the pastor repent of adultery? Spin the little prayer wheel while having a little talk with Jesus, then the adulterous relationship somehow becomes sanctified? Or by ending the adulterous relationship?

And that of course assumes that divorcing a wife and marrying another is in fact adultery (which is debatable from a whole Scripture standpoint). But does the Scripture allow for divorced and remarried men to serve as bishops and deacons? Is that a "husband of one wife"?

Just from a practical point of view, how does such a character not bring a reproach upon the church and upon the Gospel, if there are no consequences for what they have done?

If a man robs a bunch of people, should he be able to ask forgiveness and then just not do the jail time? OR are there consequences for people's actions, even if they have been covered by the blood?

Modern churches will accept an adulterer or embezzler as a pastor, but God forbid they preach the wrong eschatology. Seems like priorities are a bit askew here, amen?