Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
Let me see if I can make this more clear (sorry for not communicating this more effectively).
First, you said "gentiles in the original sense". The term "gentiles" is an English translation of the Greek word "ethnoi", which means "ethnic groups" or "nations". So, pretty much, in general, every time you see the word "gentiles" just think "nations". The term has that as it's original meaning. Now, from Israel's point of view, back in the days coming out of Egypt, and during the Judges, the times of the Davidic monarchy, and even during the days of the divided kingdom (Israel and Judah), the term came to be applied to "all the other nations besides the nation or people of Israel". However, it still had its original meaning of simply "nations" (as in Abraham would be the father of many nations, Israel was to become a multitude of nations, etc). By the time of the new testament, the Judean mindset was that "the nations" (gentiles) were all the nations other than Judea, and as such came to mean "the heathen idolaters not in covenant with God". While it is true that the rabbis recognised the "righteous gentile", that is, a non-Judean who worshipped Jehovah and was not an idolater, the term "gentile" for the most part meant a non-Judean. And, "Judean" meant either an ethnic Israelite who was still in covenant with God (circumcised if male) or someone who practiced the religion of Judea (circumcised if male).
Second, the northern House of Israel (approximately 10 tribes of the original 12 tribes) were declared by God in Hosea to be "Lo-Ammi", or "Not-My-People". They were thus "legally" as it were classed as "heathens", as just being a part of "the nations". Yet, Hosea also prophesied they would increase to an uncountable number. This of course is in keeping with the earlier prophecies going all the way back to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, etc that their descendants (the Israelites) would become a multitude of nations.
In Paul's time, the Gospel was going to "the gentiles" which primarily meant the Greeks, Romans, and the peoples within the Roman Empire. Paul says this was the fulfillment of Hosea's prophecy that the "Not-My-People" House of Israel would be brought back into covenant with God and united with the House of Judah as one people. Therefore, it stands to reason that these new testament "Gentiles" or "nations" are none other than the dispersed but immensely numerous Israelites who had lost their legal right to be called "Israel" (the people of God) but who were responding to the Gospel and who were being made one with the Judean Christians in one Body of Christ.
That would make them (these "gentiles") the wild olive tree, who were then being grafted back into Israel (the lawful covenanted nation of God) which would be the good olive tree. So the "original meaning" of "gentiles" is still applicable, because they were in fact a multitude of nations. The theological or "religious" meaning of "gentiles" is also applicable because they were not circumcised members of the nation of Judea/Judah, so they were "heathens" until they converted to Christ.
I hope that helps. Most of your summary is correct, I just wanted to clarify the issue about "original meaning of gentiles". Most people think "gentiles" means "non-Israelites" and that is it's only meaning. So when they read the new testament and read about "gentiles receiving the Gospel" they think "the Gospel came to Israelites aka Jews but it wound up going to Gentiles aka non-Israelites" which is the root fundamental basis of dispensationalism, as well as catholic and Protestant "replacement theology", both of which are incorrect. Because the term "gentiles" does not mean "people not descended from Jacob". While the people not descended from Jacob are certainly "gentiles", because there are many nations or "ethnic groups" not descended from Jacob, the term "gentiles" does not in itself mean any such thing, it just means "nations" in the literal sense (whether Israelite or not, whether covenanted or heathen or whatever), and "non-covenanted" in the theological sense (again whether Israelite or not).
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Now I know people reading this may wonder "well, if the gentiles of the new testament are Israelites, and the prophecies concerning those gentiles are actually concerning Israelites, what then about the Bantu and the Chinaman and other people who are definitely NOT Israelites? Is the Bible silent about them?"
And the answer is of course "No, the Bible is not silent about them."
Congruent with the prophecy that Abraham would be the ancestor of many nations, is the prophecy that Abraham would be "a blessing to all the nations and families of the earth". In other words, the prophetic destiny of God's people is to take the knowledge of the true God to ALL "gentiles", ALL nations, tribes, families, languages, people groups, ALL of them. So that ALL of the nations, tribes, families, languages, people groups would know God and worship Him, so that ALL nations would belong to God in a close covenanted sense. Notice the following:
Psalm 67:1-7 KJV
God be merciful unto us, and bless us; and cause his face to shine upon us; Selah. [2]
That thy way may be known upon earth, thy saving health among all nations. [3] Let the people praise thee, O God; let all the people praise thee. [4] O let the nations be glad and sing for joy: for thou shalt judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah. [5] Let the people praise thee, O God; let all the people praise thee. [6] Then shall the earth yield her increase; and God, even our own God, shall bless us. [7] God shall bless us; and
all the ends of the earth shall fear him.
And again:
Revelation 7:2-4 KJV
And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, [3] Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. [4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand
of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Here we have the sealing of the remnant of the 12 tribes of Israel. Then we have this:
Revelation 7:9 KJV
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number,
of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
While this certainly applies to Israelite nations who were to become a multitude of nations and be as vast as the sand of the sea shore, the fact it says "of ALL nations and kindreds and people and tongues" is clearly a reference to all humanity, echoing the promise made to Abraham about being a blessing to all families of the earth. So God is going to have a people besides just Israelites:
Isaiah 56:3-8 KJV
Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. [4] For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; [5] Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. [6] Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; [7] Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. [8] The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.
This passage certainly allows for the old covenant conversion of proselytes, but it clearly has a new covenant perspective and fulfilment, especially as it speaks of this in the context of the gathering of Israel. God has never had the idea that His Divine Plan is for the benefit of
Israel only. Israel is simply the vessel or mechanism He has been using to spread His knowledge abroad throughout the whole world.
(And of course, by Israel, I am not talking about the country over in Palestine that calls itself "Israel" today.)
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