That period Bro Flame decided to "go charismatic"

[Bro Flame]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Well, looks like this place is deader than fried chicken. I'll just go through this post and give my opinions. Seeing that Bro Flame ditches when he is quizzed on any post he has posted in the past. Again, just my opinion.

Well, I don't get on AFF a lot anymore, and my intention is never to abandon a conversation when I'm questioned. But I don't want to argue, at least not anymore. I just post my beliefs, my opinions, my convictions, and move on. And sometimes I honestly forget what's going on here on AFF because I'm rarely here. I just recently come back when it popped into my head. We've been so busy.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You only been in this for maybe about 10 years?

Correct. I first came into an Apostolic church in February 2015, but it was a little bit before I repented, got baptized, and I didn't receive the Holy Ghost until February 2016.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

How many pastors did you have? Was the church collegiate of elders? Or were you counting the pastor's wife and children as "pastors?"

I guess from what I read in this post their fears were warranted.

I've addressed this question in other posts, but my father and mother-in-law are my pastors. They co-pastor. They are one in God and operate as one pastor. They are the headship or our assembly, the leaders God has instructed me to follow.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

This is an interesting paragraph. Yet, you would have to be willing to have an active dialogue in order to discuss it.

What are you questions? I will be as active as I can be in a discussion on clarifying anything or elaborating anything that I've said.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Are you saying that these people were genuinely loving? That they cared for your welfare? Wanted to be your friend, other than feigning friendship in order to win you to their cause?

Yes, I do believe the people at the "charismatic church" I began attending were genuinely loving. They wanted me to come to church and they were well-known for helping people in and around their small community.

They were very welcoming and I got very close to them in a very short period of time. I was accepted as a member of their family and referred to them all as such, too. For instance, I called people "Aunt" and "Uncle" that weren't my biological relatives. I hung out at their houses, went to town with them, you name it.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

With all due respect. They were never actually convictions. But merely you trying to conform to a group. Therefore it was easy for you to strip naked and jump into the pool with the new group. Again, seems like your "pastors" and dad's fear was well warranted.

Here, you are wrong. I was genuinely convicted.

For example, I remember the day I felt God convicting me of wearing shorts. I wasn't entirely sure it was conviction that I had felt, or perhaps I wasn't wanting it to be conviction. I was in college at the time, and I wore shorts the very next day to school. I felt completely naked. I remember this empty feeling on my legs and I felt like everyone was staring at my legs -- which, I know wasn't true because my legs aren't anything to see.

But I did experience and answer genuine conviction. But I backed on it because I didn't want to live it. I had gotten around a group that told me I could have salvation without giving up as much. It was appealing to me, and I ran with it. I wanted it to be true.

Yes, the fears of my pastors and father were very much warranted.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

That's a little hard to believe. People are people, if they are hard set about something they believe in. I mean really believe in, they won't give it up. No matter what crew they are hanging out with at the time. Some frogs won't boil, no matter how slow you raise the heat. They are set in their ways, they believe what they believe. No backing up. Your "pastors" and dad knew you better than you knew you. It would seem from what I'm reading here.

Here, you are right. Had I genuinely believed it, I wouldn't have backed up on or left anything.

But that's the thing. I was always questioning and wishing God wasn't convicting me like He was doing. I didn't want to give up anything, but I wanted to live for God.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Well, I'm glad to find out you at least don't listen to every female preacher.

This female preacher you're referencing knows better, too. She was raised better and taught better. If you were to spend time with her, she'll beging to brag on her parents, her mother particularly, and tell you about all the "traditions" she came out from under and how God has broadened her horizons.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

How many "pastors" did you (or still do) have?

This was answered above.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You mentioned that you wore necklaces, bracelets, and rings? Are you saying that you actually wore necklaces (plural) bracelets (plural) and rings (plural)? Were you possessed by the spirit of MR. T? I'm sorry, but that struck me as funny.

Now, I was known to wear more than one bracelet, so I guess did channel Mr. T a little bit. I appreciate the sense of humor.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Well, I don't get on AFF a lot anymore, and my intention is never to abandon a conversation when I'm questioned. But I don't want to argue, at least not anymore. I just post my beliefs, my opinions, my convictions, and move on. And sometimes I honestly forget what's going on here on AFF because I'm rarely here. I just recently come back when it popped into my head. We've been so busy.

OK. So, I guess I'll just let it rip.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Correct. I first came into an Apostolic church in February 2015, but it was a little bit before I repented, got baptized, and I didn't receive the Holy Ghost until February 2016.

OK. Thank you for the clarification.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

I've addressed this question in other posts, but my father and mother-in-law are my pastors.

While I know many denominations have this sort of set up. I still not clear on how this works. Do they have a church board? Do they take turns preaching and teaching? Do they get seperate tithe checks? I'm not being facetious here, I'm asking questions? Where in the Bible can we find this set up in a church setting? I believe I understand your position on female leadership over married men (also known as female pastors) so, I would believe you have some insight on this subject.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

They co-pastor. They are one in God and operate as one pastor. They are the headship or our assembly, the leaders God has instructed me to follow.

I understand the one flesh of marriage between a man and a woman. Yet, that doesn't translate over vocationally. A man's calling or talent in a calling or vocation, doesn't mean the spouse would be qualified just because they are a married couple. I'm good at my position, because I have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over my life experience in ministry. Which my wife doesn't have, and therefore she isn't qualified in the same vocation and calling as I. Pastors and elders I have known for years, their wives (while capable in their own right) don't have the skills and expertise in leadership as their husbands. Therefore I have a bit of an issue with the whole co pastor idea of husband and wife, and children and parents. I bring up children and parents because I have seen the co-pastoring extend over to the offspring of the pastor.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

What are you questions? I will be as active as I can be in a discussion on clarifying anything or elaborating anything that I've said.

I appreciate that. Let's see how this works out.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Yes, I do believe the people at the "charismatic church" I began attending were genuinely loving. They wanted me to come to church and they were well-known for helping people in and around their small community.

They were very welcoming and I got very close to them in a very short period of time. I was accepted as a member of their family and referred to them all as such, too. For instance, I called people "Aunt" and "Uncle" that weren't my biological relatives. I hung out at their houses, went to town with them, you name it.

Do you still have contact with these people? Are they still friends? Aunts? Uncles?

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Here, you are wrong. I was genuinely convicted.

I don't think so, and I'll tell you why. Respectfully, when we are dead set in a desire of faith and practice. It is pretty hard to shake us from it, no matter how much a Charismatic or an Apostolic pastor's wife tells you different.
When I hear stories of someone leading a Muslim to Jesus name. I ask what kind of Muslim were they? Were they an Imam? Or a convert from Judaism? Were they are Rabbinical teacher, or someone who was a studied orthodox? Could you imagine your co pastors or your dad backing up on their convictions? Getting rid of long sleeves, holiness attire, and wearing T-shirts and shorts? Your pastor's wife cutting her hair, wearing makeup and jewelry?
They all preaching from the pulpit that outer attire meant nothing, and that the whole church family was going to have a barbeque and pool party?
These are the things I was commenting on, that we aren't very dead set in something if we lose the conviction when we around the people from the outside.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

For example, I remember the day I felt God convicting me of wearing shorts. I wasn't entirely sure it was conviction that I had felt, or perhaps I wasn't wanting it to be conviction. I was in college at the time, and I wore shorts the very next day to school. I felt completely naked. I remember this empty feeling on my legs and I felt like everyone was staring at my legs -- which, I know wasn't true because my legs aren't anything to see.

Interesting.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

But I did experience and answer genuine conviction. But I backed on it because I didn't want to live it. I had gotten around a group that told me I could have salvation without giving up as much. It was appealing to me, and I ran with it. I wanted it to be true.

Yes, the fears of my pastors and father were very much warranted.

All I can say is I hope you hang in there this time around.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Here, you are right. Had I genuinely believed it, I wouldn't have backed up on or left anything.

But that's the thing. I was always questioning and wishing God wasn't convicting me like He was doing. I didn't want to give up anything, but I wanted to live for God.

I love Apostolic Pentecostals ever since my first experience with the Church. The move of the Holy Ghost, and the power of Jesus name. I hit the floor running and never wanted to stop. It's kind of like a crackhead. They will work as hard as anything to get a fix. They will move the earth to do it. With that in mind, I'm sure not going to let a crackhead out work me on the things I'm addicted to in the Apostolic Faith 1 Corinthians 16:15

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

This female preacher you're referencing knows better, too. She was raised better and taught better. If you were to spend time with her, she'll beging to brag on her parents, her mother particularly, and tell you about all the "traditions" she came out from under and how God has broadened her horizons.

Sounds like she loves her parents. That's admirable. Yet, while she still loves here mother, and father, she took her own direction away from what she was brought up around. Which can be a whole other discussion, who she hung out with just like the direction you were heading. Therefore maybe will cut her a little slack. You escaped, and she is still stuck.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Now, I was known to wear more than one bracelet, so I guess did channel Mr. T a little bit. I appreciate the sense of humor.

Thank you.

[Bro Flame]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

OK. So, I guess I'll just let it rip.

Yes sir. Let it roll. I'll answer everything to the best of my ability.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

OK. Thank you for the clarification.

Not a problem. And, for further clarification, I went to this, shall we say, charismatic church with my mother between from early 2017 through mid-to-late 2018.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

While I know many denominations have this sort of set up. I still not clear on how this works. Do they have a church board? Do they take turns preaching and teaching? Do they get seperate tithe checks? I'm not being facetious here, I'm asking questions? Where in the Bible can we find this set up in a church setting? I believe I understand your position on female leadership over married men (also known as female pastors) so, I would believe you have some insight on this subject.

Our church doesn't belong to any type of denomination or organization. No UPC, no ALJC, no PAW, no WPF (yes, I know that's a fellowship, not a denomination).

No, we do not have a church board.

Yes, they take turns teaching and preaching. However, I would say the bulk of the preaching falls on him and the bulk of the counseling falls on her. They compliment one another very well, and they often change roles, depending on the circumstances. They never counsel anyone alone. They always have somebody with them. Like, for example, my mother-in-law has had either myself or my brother-in-law in the room with her when she's talking with another man about something spiritual that she feels God as told her to pass along.

I'm at work right now, so I will get back with you on the rest of these questions right here.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I understand the one flesh of marriage between a man and a woman. Yet, that doesn't translate over vocationally. A man's calling or talent in a calling or vocation, doesn't mean the spouse would be qualified just because they are a married couple. I'm good at my position, because I have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over my life experience in ministry. Which my wife doesn't have, and therefore she isn't qualified in the same vocation and calling as I. Pastors and elders I have known for years, their wives (while capable in their own right) don't have the skills and expertise in leadership as their husbands. Therefore I have a bit of an issue with the whole co pastor idea of husband and wife, and children and parents. I bring up children and parents because I have seen the co-pastoring extend over to the offspring of the pastor.

The Bible says there is neither male nor female in Christ. Jesus doesn't view us that way. I am under a co-pastor leadership, and yes, sometimes their children (including my wife, her siblings, and sometimes us in-laws) have given advice or prayed with other young people in the church.

So, let me ask you something here. Why do women not have skills and expertise to be leaders? Can their experiences not prep them for such duties? Does their gender specifically exclude them from obtaining the right qualifications to be in leadership roles like their husbands or fathers?

Just curious.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I appreciate that. Let's see how this works out.

I'm sure it'll work out well. We might even learn a thing or two about one another.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Do you still have contact with these people? Are they still friends? Aunts? Uncles?

Yes, I do still have contact with them. They attended our wedding back in March 2021, and just recently that attended my church for a revival in August 2025. They were not invited, but they saw the flyer on Facebook, and several of them decided to come, including the aforementioned female preacher that tried spoke highly of her parents, but yet left what they taught her.

To clarify, however, I do not hold the same relationship with them as I did when I went to their church. Do I still love them? Of course. Am I still glad to see them? Yes. These people were a signficant part of my life for close to two years, and I will not just write them off and cross them out.

However, in saying that, they know what I've chosen. It is clear, it is obvious, that I have not chosen to go the direction they are going. They recognize and understand that I chose to re-commit to where God planted me to be.

I can't remember I've stated it before or not, but my current church and the charismatic church used to be in semi-fellowship together. The mother of the charismatic church was a strong holiness woman and was the first individual (outside of our church) that donated money to my pastors for our church school.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I don't think so, and I'll tell you why. Respectfully, when we are dead set in a desire of faith and practice. It is pretty hard to shake us from it, no matter how much a Charismatic or an Apostolic pastor's wife tells you different.
When I hear stories of someone leading a Muslim to Jesus name. I ask what kind of Muslim were they? Were they an Imam? Or a convert from Judaism? Were they are Rabbinical teacher, or someone who was a studied orthodox? Could you imagine your co pastors or your dad backing up on their convictions? Getting rid of long sleeves, holiness attire, and wearing T-shirts and shorts? Your pastor's wife cutting her hair, wearing makeup and jewelry?
They all preaching from the pulpit that outer attire meant nothing, and that the whole church family was going to have a barbeque and pool party?
These are the things I was commenting on, that we aren't very dead set in something if we lose the conviction when we around the people from the outside.

I understand your view here. When something is dead to you, then it's dead to you. There is no desire in you to return to that which is dead.

Perhaps the conviction I was feeling was the beginning of conviction and dying out to that which God was calling me from, but yet I chose to run from it and try and get to Heaven another way.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Interesting.

Do you wish to elaborate here?

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

All I can say is I hope you hang in there this time around.

Brother, when Jesus got ahold of me again and I recommitted to where he originally planted me, I prayed to have a love for truth, for holiness, for holiness attire, for holiness living, for being set apart.

I am more rock solid today in what the Apostolic church teaches than I have ever been in my life. I love it, and I know it's necessary for salvation. I do my best to share the truth with the same love, compassion, and mercy that was bestowed upon me by God and the leadership He has placed in my life.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I love Apostolic Pentecostals ever since my first experience with the Church. The move of the Holy Ghost, and the power of Jesus name. I hit the floor running and never wanted to stop. It's kind of like a crackhead. They will work as hard as anything to get a fix. They will move the earth to do it. With that in mind, I'm sure not going to let a crackhead out work me on the things I'm addicted to in the Apostolic Faith 1 Corinthians 16:15

Amen. I thouroughly, uniquely, 100% Apostolic. There is not watering-down, there is no compromise, there is no turning back.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sounds like she loves her parents. That's admirable. Yet, while she still loves here mother, and father, she took her own direction away from what she was brought up around. Which can be a whole other discussion, who she hung out with just like the direction you were heading. Therefore maybe will cut her a little slack. You escaped, and she is still stuck.

She does genuinely love her parents. She was raised in a good, strong, holiness home and church. In our area, the elders (from various different Apostolic/Pentecostal churches) can tell you stories about attending this church back in the '60s, '70s, and '80s, and tell you about the power of the Holy Ghost they saw in that place.

But this woman left what she was taught. You can spend just a little while with her and if she ever starts talking about her youth, you will learn that she rebelled against everything her mom and dad stood for. She rebelled many years ago, and once she was old enough, she started doing her own thing. Now that she is in charge, more or less, the church is just as she wants it to be.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Thank you.

You're welcome.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Yes sir. Let it roll. I'll answer everything to the best of my ability.




Not a problem. And, for further clarification, I went to this, shall we say, charismatic church with my mother between from early 2017 through mid-to-late 2018.




Our church doesn't belong to any type of denomination or organization. No UPC, no ALJC, no PAW, no WPF (yes, I know that's a fellowship, not a denomination).

No, we do not have a church board.

Yes, they take turns teaching and preaching. However, I would say the bulk of the preaching falls on him and the bulk of the counseling falls on her. They compliment one another very well, and they often change roles, depending on the circumstances. They never counsel anyone alone. They always have somebody with them. Like, for example, my mother-in-law has had either myself or my brother-in-law in the room with her when she's talking with another man about something spiritual that she feels God as told her to pass along.

I'm at work right now, so I will get back with you on the rest of these questions right here.

I understand totally the need of never conducting counseling on a one on one. Taking turns to preach is not unusual in a church setting. So, if someone was to call out the title “pastor!” Do they both turn around? But, it is what it is. That’s how your church is run. You are happy with it an obviously the church is pleased to have it so.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

The Bible says there is neither male nor female in Christ. Jesus doesn't view us that way.

Neither male nor female has zero to do with gender roles. It specifically dealing with salvation. Jesus doesn’t see us as Gender Fluid. But, that doesn’t mean now since we are in Christ the roles of husband and wife have drastically changed. The husband, father relationship to wife and children has not been altered by Galatians 3:28-29. Therefore gender fluidity in leadership isn’t being defended by Galatians 3:28-29.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

I am under a co-pastor leadership, and yes, sometimes their children (including my wife, her siblings, and sometimes us in-laws) have given advice or prayed with other young people in the church.

Excuse me, please allow me some clarification for the above? Are you saying the entire family is co pastoring together? Let me thank you in advance for taking the time to answer my questions to the best of your ability.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

So, let me ask you something here. Why do women not have skills and expertise to be leaders?

I never said that. What I did say is that a wife doesn’t have the same set of skills her husband may have in ministry. Also may I add that Jesus understood this when appointing His Apostles to preach. Also the 70 elders going out two by two. Jesus never appointed husband and wife teams. Peter was an elder, and an apostle. Yet, his wife and mother in law were not. I’m a mechanic by trade, and can transfer my skills into other trades as well. My wife cannot by virtue of just me being a mechanic. My wife wouldn't automatically gain these skills just because I possess them. The same thing goes for any calling in the ministry. Each person needs to acquire and develop their own specific expertise for their calling of God. No doubt can a wife be a complement to her husband’s ministry. Yet, female leadership over married men is opposite of God’s church structure of leadership. We have God the Father, not God the Father, and His Wife.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Can their experiences not prep them for such duties? Does their gender specifically exclude them from obtaining the right qualifications to be in leadership roles like their husbands or fathers?

That’s a very good question. The Apostle address this with Titus dealing with female elders and younger women in Titus 2:3-5 “The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.” The Apostle Paul instructs the church concerning elder women that their leadership role was the example of their behavior. They were to teach the younger women. No where do we find them instructing adult married men. It is also interesting that we don’t have any canonical books of the New Testament addressed to women leadership. No female apostles, bishops, or elders. Where they are excluded is from leadership over adult men. The Bible doesn’t teach gender fluidity of leadership.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

I'm sure it'll work out well. We might even learn a thing or two about one another.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Yes, I do still have contact with them. They attended our wedding back in March 2021, and just recently that attended my church for a revival in August 2025. They were not invited, but they saw the flyer on Facebook, and several of them decided to come, including the aforementioned female preacher that tried spoke highly of her parents, but yet left what they taught her.

That was very kind of them to be there to support you and your wife. Especially after they weren’t formally invited. That does say a lot about them.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

To clarify, however, I do not hold the same relationship with them as I did when I went to their church. Do I still love them? Of course. Am I still glad to see them? Yes. These people were a signficant part of my life for close to two years, and I will not just write them off and cross them out.

However, in saying that, they know what I've chosen. It is clear, it is obvious, that I have not chosen to go the direction they are going. They recognize and understand that I chose to re-commit to where God planted me to be.

I can't remember I've stated it before or not, but my current church and the charismatic church used to be in semi-fellowship together. The mother of the charismatic church was a strong holiness woman and was the first individual (outside of our church) that donated money to my pastors for our church school.

Being glad to see them is good. They attending your wedding when not formally invited is very kind. Myself have long time relationships with people of different religious beliefs. We are friends and have had some good discussions. I’ve done things for them and they have done things for me. Never hesitating to be of assistance. They know what I believe and how I believe it. I know what they believe and how they do it. Yet, we are able to be cordial to one another, as I know you are with your Charismatic aunts and uncles.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

I understand your view here. When something is dead to you, then it's dead to you. There is no desire in you to return to that which is dead.

Perhaps the conviction I was feeling was the beginning of conviction and dying out to that which God was calling me from, but yet I chose to run from it and try and get to Heaven another way.

I don’t think so. When we are convinced by God it’s different when we are just following the leader (not talking merely about religious leadership). When you have a Holy Ghost epiphany it sticks just as much as a strong delusion. Because it’s God who is the one who hands you over to a strong delusion 2 Thessalonians 2:11. So, both are pretty dug in deep. But, when we just following the crowd, we are just laying down with the dogs. When that happens we get up with fleas. Yet, fleas we can get rid of them with a good washing of knowledge enhanced by the leading of the Holy Ghost. When we are led of God and totally give into following Him. He will be the Author and Finisher of our Faith.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Do you wish to elaborate here?

No, I’m good.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Brother, when Jesus got ahold of me again and I recommitted to where he originally planted me, I prayed to have a love for truth, for holiness, for holiness attire, for holiness living, for being set apart.

I am more rock solid today in what the Apostolic church teaches than I have ever been in my life. I love it, and I know it's necessary for salvation. I do my best to share the truth with the same love, compassion, and mercy that was bestowed upon me by God and the leadership He has placed in my life.

Sounds beautiful, may the Lord Jesus Christ guide you in your journey.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Amen. I thouroughly, uniquely, 100% Apostolic. There is not watering-down, there is no compromise, there is no turning back.

Apostolic to the bone and heading all the way Home.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

She does genuinely love her parents. She was raised in a good, strong, holiness home and church. In our area, the elders (from various different Apostolic/Pentecostal churches) can tell you stories about attending this church back in the '60s, '70s, and '80s, and tell you about the power of the Holy Ghost they saw in that place.

But this woman left what she was taught. You can spend just a little while with her and if she ever starts talking about her youth, you will learn that she rebelled against everything her mom and dad stood for. She rebelled many years ago, and once she was old enough, she started doing her own thing. Now that she is in charge, more or less, the church is just as she wants it to be.

Do you all still bump into each other? Did she come to your wedding? There is a plethora of reasons why people give up on standards. You clearly have experienced one way. She loves her parents, and constantly refers back to her upbringing maybe as bad, maybe as good also. Who knows what she may do in the future. I hope she comes back. To quote just a tiny portion of some English literature, “not all who wander are lost.” She left standards but she still acknowledges the power of the Holy Ghost? If so she might just get a good dose of it and come around again. Keep her in prayers.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

You're welcome.

[Bro Flame]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I understand totally the need of never conducting counseling on a one on one. Taking turns to preach is not unusual in a church setting. So, if someone was to call out the title “pastor!” Do they both turn around? But, it is what it is. That’s how your church is run. You are happy with it an obviously the church is pleased to have it so.

You know, now that you think of it, I don't know about someone yelling "Pastor!" Perhaps they might both turn around, or perhaps neither of them would. They won't admit it, but they're both hard of hearing now that they're over 50 and over the hill.

But, yes, we are all very happy with how our church operates. The Holy Ghost has liberty in our services, people respond, salvation is obtained, healings occur, devils are cast out, and so forth. I am truly blessed to be apart of this assembly. It is where God wants me, and in that, I haven't a single doubt. I am where I'm supposed to be.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Neither male nor female has zero to do with gender roles. It specifically dealing with salvation. Jesus doesn’t see us as Gender Fluid. But, that doesn’t mean now since we are in Christ the roles of husband and wife have drastically changed. The husband, father relationship to wife and children has not been altered by Galatians 3:28-29. Therefore gender fluidity in leadership isn’t being defended by Galatians 3:28-29.

Salvation is and can be obtained by both genders. God can use both genders. There we agree.

Our difference is women in the position of leadership.

Question. Do you think fellowship should be broken over an issue such as this one? Just curious.

Like, would you fellowship with or preach for a church that is pastored by a female or allows women to preach?

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Excuse me, please allow me some clarification for the above? Are you saying the entire family is co pastoring together? Let me thank you in advance for taking the time to answer my questions to the best of your ability.

In rereading what I typed, I can understand your confusion.

No, the entire family doesn't co-pastor the congregation. What I meant was, in friend circles, we sometimes offer advice. You know, as friends would do. However, if the situation is serious and outside of our authority (which we don't have any, but you know what I mean), we point them back to the pastor. Which one? The female one (for your clarification). Why? Well, because she is the one most readily available. Our male pastor (for your clarification) works 100+ hours a week and is usually far from home and wrangled up in his job. Not that he wouldn't be there, he's just a little harder to tie down. Am I making sense?

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I never said that. What I did say is that a wife doesn’t have the same set of skills her husband may have in ministry. Also may I add that Jesus understood this when appointing His Apostles to preach. Also the 70 elders going out two by two. Jesus never appointed husband and wife teams. Peter was an elder, and an apostle. Yet, his wife and mother in law were not. I’m a mechanic by trade, and can transfer my skills into other trades as well. My wife cannot by virtue of just me being a mechanic. My wife wouldn't automatically gain these skills just because I possess them. The same thing goes for any calling in the ministry. Each person needs to acquire and develop their own specific expertise for their calling of God. No doubt can a wife be a complement to her husband’s ministry. Yet, female leadership over married men is opposite of God’s church structure of leadership. We have God the Father, not God the Father, and His Wife.

I once had a friend, a few years ago than me, that attended my current church. I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in tongues, the night our female pastor preached (for your clarification).

He now holds a position very similar to yours, as he goes to a different church that doesn't allow women to be in leadership unless it's teaching the kids in the back Sunday school room.

In saying that, I see you're view, but I have to disagree. We're talking about the spiritual, not the natural. I believe when someone is called, and they're with a godly spouse, then they're both called.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

That’s a very good question. The Apostle address this with Titus dealing with female elders and younger women in Titus 2:3-5 “The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.” The Apostle Paul instructs the church concerning elder women that their leadership role was the example of their behavior. They were to teach the younger women. No where do we find them instructing adult married men. It is also interesting that we don’t have any canonical books of the New Testament addressed to women leadership. No female apostles, bishops, or elders. Where they are excluded is from leadership over adult men. The Bible doesn’t teach gender fluidity of leadership.

So women can only teacher younger women? So they can't teach an older woman anything?

Iron sharpens iron.

Question. Doesn't Joel say that our daughters shall prophesy? Doesn't prophesying qualify as preaching? Can women pray for men under the unction of the Holy Ghost, or is that taking authority? I know from experience that those that are against women in leadership say it's an issue of authority.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

That was very kind of them to be there to support you and your wife. Especially after they weren’t formally invited. That does say a lot about them.

Yes, it was nice of them to come, and we were glad to see them all. They weren't formally invited because nobody would've expected them to come. We were having a good, old-fashioned Apostolic revival and, well, that just isn't really their thing anymore.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Being glad to see them is good. They attending your wedding when not formally invited is very kind. Myself have long time relationships with people of different religious beliefs. We are friends and have had some good discussions. I’ve done things for them and they have done things for me. Never hesitating to be of assistance. They know what I believe and how I believe it. I know what they believe and how they do it. Yet, we are able to be cordial to one another, as I know you are with your Charismatic aunts and uncles.

Yes, I do enjoy getting to see them, which isn't very often. Once, maybe twice a year, but it's sporadic, and usually quite random. I do keep in touch with a few of them via Facebook, Snapchat, or through texting. I mainly just check-in with them, ask about their health, ask about the family, stuff like that. We never, ever discuss doctrinal things or anything close to it. The most we might mention is how good church has been lately, but that's it.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I don’t think so. When we are convinced by God it’s different when we are just following the leader (not talking merely about religious leadership). When you have a Holy Ghost epiphany it sticks just as much as a strong delusion. Because it’s God who is the one who hands you over to a strong delusion 2 Thessalonians 2:11. So, both are pretty dug in deep. But, when we just following the crowd, we are just laying down with the dogs. When that happens we get up with fleas. Yet, fleas we can get rid of them with a good washing of knowledge enhanced by the leading of the Holy Ghost. When we are led of God and totally give into following Him. He will be the Author and Finisher of our Faith.

You might be right, but I can affirm that what I felt was quite real, and that I ended up overriding it to do what I wanted to do.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

No, I’m good.

Gotcha.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sounds beautiful, may the Lord Jesus Christ guide you in your journey.

Much appreciated. I wish you nothing good as well.

Question. Were you raised Apostolic? If not, when do you come into it?

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Apostolic to the bone and heading all the way Home.

I've never heard this, but I like it.

We have a young preacher in our church that says, "Thank God I've been baptized in Jesus' name and spoke in tongues when the Holy Ghost came."

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Do you all still bump into each other? Did she come to your wedding? There is a plethora of reasons why people give up on standards. You clearly have experienced one way. She loves her parents, and constantly refers back to her upbringing maybe as bad, maybe as good also. Who knows what she may do in the future. I hope she comes back. To quote just a tiny portion of some English literature, “not all who wander are lost.” She left standards but she still acknowledges the power of the Holy Ghost? If so she might just get a good dose of it and come around again. Keep her in prayers.

It's rare that I bump into her. We live about an hour away from one another, so that leaves little room for us to run into one another out in town or something.

Yes, she does still profess to have the Holy Ghost and she does believe in the power of the Holy Ghost. I pray for her and the entire church often. I pray they wake up and realize that which they've lost and return to their first love.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

You know, now that you think of it, I don't know about someone yelling "Pastor!"

I would gather the male pastor would turn around, because he is more apt to be called by that title. From saints, visitors and those around his location if they knew him as a minister.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Perhaps they might both turn around,

Does anyone call the pastor's wife "pastor?"
Or are is she referred to as sister, and the pastor, brother?

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

or perhaps neither of them would.

I would take the above to mean neither are referred to as pastor?

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

They won't admit it, but they're both hard of hearing now that they're over 50 and over the hill.

Over 50? Do you believe that's too old?

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

But, yes, we are all very happy with how our church operates. The Holy Ghost has liberty in our services, people respond, salvation is obtained, healings occur, devils are cast out, and so forth. I am truly blessed to be apart of this assembly. It is where God wants me, and in that, I haven't a single doubt. I am where I'm supposed to be.

I wish you, and your wife the best.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Salvation is and can be obtained by both genders. God can use both genders. There we agree.

What I was initially pointing out, is that no one can use Galatians 3:28-29 to justify female ministry over adult males. The Apostle is strictly talking about salvation, hence the reason Greeks and Judeans are mentions with slaves and freeborn Roman citizens. Obviously those other groups still existed while the Galatian letter was being written? Also in the verses we are told about Abraham and his faith. Which means zero towards women being the same as men in ability to lead men. I know that the whole woman preacher crowd uses Galatians 3:28-29 to prove literal gender fluidity as being part of the New Testament. Yet, when we place the verse in its proper context in the chapter and the Bible, it isn't proving gender fluidity at all. Let me just say, you would do yourself a favor by not using Galatians 3:28-29 to defend female leadership over men.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Our difference is women in the position of leadership.

Question. Do you think fellowship should be broken over an issue such as this one? Just curious.

Like, would you fellowship with or preach for a church that is pastored by a female or allows women to preach?

It's like this, all churches are built on what they don't believe. They don't believe in long sleeves, short pants, no hair dye, no toupees. no open toe shoes, no beards, or no clean shaven faces, all adult men must have an uncut beard. etc, fill in your blank. Everyone gathers around what they don't believe in. It is led by the elders of the church formulated by the teachings taught in their church. This question has a simple answer. Would your ministry hand over their pulpit to someone who doesn't believe like they do? Would they allow the Charismatic pastor's wife be welcome to preach from their pulpit?

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

In rereading what I typed, I can understand your confusion.

No, the entire family doesn't co-pastor the congregation. What I meant was, in friend circles, we sometimes offer advice. You know, as friends would do. However, if the situation is serious and outside of our authority (which we don't have any, but you know what I mean), we point them back to the pastor. Which one? The female one (for your clarification). Why? Well, because she is the one most readily available. Our male pastor (for your clarification) works 100+ hours a week and is usually far from home and wrangled up in his job. Not that he wouldn't be there, he's just a little harder to tie down. Am I making sense?

So, the male pastor has no time to pastor the church? Because he is too busy with secular work? Therefore his wife has to do the ministerial work? I do believe I need a tad more clarification here.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

I once had a friend, a few years ago than me, that attended my current church. I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in tongues, the night our female pastor preached (for your clarification).

He now holds a position very similar to yours, as he goes to a different church that doesn't allow women to be in leadership unless it's teaching the kids in the back Sunday school room.

In saying that, I see you're view, but I have to disagree. We're talking about the spiritual, not the natural. I believe when someone is called, and they're with a godly spouse, then they're both called.

The Bible has no precedence of women leading men. If we take the Deborah route she was a judge, during a time when Israel was in rebellion to God. Also she wasn't a leader of men, she was told by God to find a man to lead the 10,000 men from Naphtali and Zebulun to fight Sisera. Not her. The only reason she accompanied Barak because he wouldn't do it unless she agreed to go. She agreed to go but said, "the road you are taking will not lead to your glory, for the LORD will sell Sisera into the hands of a woman". A woman gaining the victory wasn't used as a good thing. But as a symbol of disgrace. Therefore no New Testament writer employs Deborah as an example as a woman minister for the New Testament church. In Hebrews Barak is employed as the one remembered as a hero of faith, and not Deborah. This perspective aligns with a complementarian view of gender roles, which are found in 1 Timothy 2:12 and 1 Corinthians 14:34. Which establish different, complementary functions for men and women within the church and family. This primarily reserves teaching and leadership roles for men to men. In contrast, those with the woman leadership over the adult male view interpret these same scriptures to fit their agenda. They often point to individuals such as Junia in Romans 16:7, Phoebe in Romans 16:1, and the often misinterpreted Galatians 3:28-29. The woman preacher crowd see Deborah being a judge, suggesting that God empowers both men and women for leadership roles in the New Testament Apostolic church.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

So women can only teacher younger women? So they can't teach an older woman anything?

A very good question. Elder and younger usually refers to those more experienced not only in life, but in the life in Christ. The Apostle was making a point concerning not only younger women in age but as followers in Christ.
Proverbs 27:17 as you mentioned would apply to all the female saints as they all grew in grace and knowledge with the Body of Christ.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Question. Doesn't Joel say that our daughters shall prophesy? Doesn't prophesying qualify as preaching?

Which doesn't have anything to do with female leadership of men. It had to do with Moses telling Joshua "Are you zealous for my sake? Oh, that all the LORD’s people were prophets and that the LORD would put His Spirit upon them!” Numbers 11:29. Which points towards more to the day of Pentecost, then giving license to a woman to lead elders of a church family. It's poetic language of the prophet, not an edict to ordain women to lead other women's husbands. The Apostle Paul commends Timothy concerning his mother and grandmother 2 Timothy 1:5. Yet, the very same Apostle states to Timothy in his first letter to Timothy, "I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." While Paul highlights a legacy of genuine faith passed down to Timothy through his mother, and grandmother, he also tells Timothy to not allow women to teach or hold authority over men. This isn't a contradiction, but how the Judeans and early Apostolic church viewed the role of women.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Can women pray for men under the unction of the Holy Ghost, or is that taking authority?

I think I know what you mean, but could you clarify the above sentence for me? When you say unction of the Holy Ghost induced prayer are you talking about something occurring spontaneously? Where someone male or female has an unction from the Lord to pray for my family and myself?

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

I know from experience that those that are against women in leadership say it's an issue of authority.

I've never heard of anyone rejecting prayers from any sincere saint of God.
But, I may be misunderstanding the question.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Yes, it was nice of them to come, and we were glad to see them all. They weren't formally invited because nobody would've expected them to come.

That's an interesting sentence. Could you explain why you felt this way about them? You did leave their church on good terms?

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

We were having a good, old-fashioned Apostolic revival and, well, that just isn't really their thing anymore.

They don't like preaching? Or they don't like to be preaching material?

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Yes, I do enjoy getting to see them, which isn't very often. Once, maybe twice a year, but it's sporadic, and usually quite random. I do keep in touch with a few of them via Facebook, Snapchat, or through texting. I mainly just check-in with them, ask about their health, ask about the family, stuff like that. We never, ever discuss doctrinal things or anything close to it. The most we might mention is how good church has been lately, but that's it.

That's nice

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

You might be right, but I can affirm that what I felt was quite real, and that I ended up overriding it to do what I wanted to do.

OK.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Much appreciated. I wish you nothing good as well.

Would that be a Freudian slip?

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Question. Were you raised Apostolic? If not, when do you come into it?

No, I wasn't raised an Apostolic. I've been Apostolic for 36 years.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

I've never heard this, but I like it.

We have a young preacher in our church that says, "Thank God I've been baptized in Jesus' name and spoke in tongues when the Holy Ghost came."

Amen in Jesus name.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

It's rare that I bump into her. We live about an hour away from one another, so that leaves little room for us to run into one another out in town or something.

Yes, she does still profess to have the Holy Ghost and she does believe in the power of the Holy Ghost. I pray for her and the entire church often. I pray they wake up and realize that which they've lost and return to their first love.

Again, Amen in Jesus name.

Also thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

[Bro Flame]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I would gather the male pastor would turn around, because he is more apt to be called by that title. From saints, visitors and those around his location if they knew him as a minister.

Here, you are right. He is more likely to carry the title of "Pastor" among the people. There are people that don't attend our church that call him "Pastor" when they greet him. She is affectionately referred to as "Preacher Mama", a term of endearment the church has given to her.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Does anyone call the pastor's wife "pastor?"
Or are is she referred to as sister, and the pastor, brother?

Collectively, they are our "Pastor", and they each carry that title and have that respect from the congregation.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I would take the above to mean neither are referred to as pastor?

I've already answered this above, so I'll let this be.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Over 50? Do you believe that's too old?

No, not at all. I was simply being funny.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I wish you, and your wife the best.

I do certainly appreciate the well wishes. My wife, our baby, and myself are thriving under God's blessings. He is so good to us and we are thankful for His goodness and mercy.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

What I was initially pointing out, is that no one can use Galatians 3:28-29 to justify female ministry over adult males. The Apostle is strictly talking about salvation, hence the reason Greeks and Judeans are mentions with slaves and freeborn Roman citizens. Obviously those other groups still existed while the Galatian letter was being written? Also in the verses we are told about Abraham and his faith. Which means zero towards women being the same as men in ability to lead men. I know that the whole woman preacher crowd uses Galatians 3:28-29 to prove literal gender fluidity as being part of the New Testament. Yet, when we place the verse in its proper context in the chapter and the Bible, it isn't proving gender fluidity at all. Let me just say, you would do yourself a favor by not using Galatians 3:28-29 to defend female leadership over men.

So, let me be clear, you're saying I shouldn't use Galatians 3:28-29, right? No, I'm picking. I hear you loud and clear.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

It's like this, all churches are built on what they don't believe. They don't believe in long sleeves, short pants, no hair dye, no toupees. no open toe shoes, no beards, or no clean shaven faces, all adult men must have an uncut beard. etc, fill in your blank. Everyone gathers around what they don't believe in. It is led by the elders of the church formulated by the teachings taught in their church. This question has a simple answer. Would your ministry hand over their pulpit to someone who doesn't believe like they do? Would they allow the Charismatic pastor's wife be welcome to preach from their pulpit?

So, I'll take that as a no then. You don't fellowship with churches that permit women to preach.

To address what you said, I'll give you an example. My Pastors were once close to an elder Baptist preacher and his wife. This Baptist preacher would sometimes visit our church on special occasions or pop-up at a tent revival. Out of respect for the position he held, my father-in-law would call him to the pulpit, get him to testify, and his wife might sing a song. But, to be clear, the Baptist preacher was never asked to preach to us or to take charge or control over the pulpit or service in that manner.

To give a more specific example concerning the charismatic preacher's wife, you'll remember they showed up at our revival back in August 2025. The charismatic lady preacher was recognized and asked to say something on behalf of her church. However, owing to where she was in the sanctuary (it was quite crowded), she was not called to the pulpit, but testified from where she was sitting. You'll also remember that my Pastors and the charismatic lady preacher and her family have a history. They've known one another for decades.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So, the male pastor has no time to pastor the church? Because he is too busy with secular work? Therefore his wife has to do the ministerial work? I do believe I need a tad more clarification here.

We are what would be considered small country church, and we are by no means a wealthy church in terms of finances. With that, he has to work to support himself and his family.

That said, that does leave her to doing most of the foot work when it comes to the ministerial duties.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

The Bible has no precedence of women leading men. If we take the Deborah route she was a judge, during a time when Israel was in rebellion to God. Also she wasn't a leader of men, she was told by God to find a man to lead the 10,000 men from Naphtali and Zebulun to fight Sisera. Not her. The only reason she accompanied Barak because he wouldn't do it unless she agreed to go. She agreed to go but said, "the road you are taking will not lead to your glory, for the LORD will sell Sisera into the hands of a woman". A woman gaining the victory wasn't used as a good thing. But as a symbol of disgrace. Therefore no New Testament writer employs Deborah as an example as a woman minister for the New Testament church. In Hebrews Barak is employed as the one remembered as a hero of faith, and not Deborah. This perspective aligns with a complementarian view of gender roles, which are found in 1 Timothy 2:12 and 1 Corinthians 14:34. Which establish different, complementary functions for men and women within the church and family. This primarily reserves teaching and leadership roles for men to men. In contrast, those with the woman leadership over the adult male view interpret these same scriptures to fit their agenda. They often point to individuals such as Junia in Romans 16:7, Phoebe in Romans 16:1, and the often misinterpreted Galatians 3:28-29. The woman preacher crowd see Deborah being a judge, suggesting that God empowers both men and women for leadership roles in the New Testament Apostolic church.

So Deborah was in rebellion because Israel was in rebellion? And does a judge not have authority over men?

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

A very good question. Elder and younger usually refers to those more experienced not only in life, but in the life in Christ. The Apostle was making a point concerning not only younger women in age but as followers in Christ.
Proverbs 27:17 as you mentioned would apply to all the female saints as they all grew in grace and knowledge with the Body of Christ.

Agreed. Eldership isn't always about years on a calendar, but about one's maturity in Christ. My youngest sister-in-law has been in the church her entire life (well, all of them have been) and she has a prayer life like someone that's served God for decades. She can get in the Holy Ghost like nobody I've ever seen. She is an elder, no doubt.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Which doesn't have anything to do with female leadership of men. It had to do with Moses telling Joshua "Are you zealous for my sake? Oh, that all the LORD’s people were prophets and that the LORD would put His Spirit upon them!” Numbers 11:29. Which points towards more to the day of Pentecost, then giving license to a woman to lead elders of a church family. It's poetic language of the prophet, not an edict to ordain women to lead other women's husbands. The Apostle Paul commends Timothy concerning his mother and grandmother 2 Timothy 1:5. Yet, the very same Apostle states to Timothy in his first letter to Timothy, "I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." While Paul highlights a legacy of genuine faith passed down to Timothy through his mother, and grandmother, he also tells Timothy to not allow women to teach or hold authority over men. This isn't a contradiction, but how the Judeans and early Apostolic church viewed the role of women.

Do you believe that lady preachers are out of order and can't be anointed by God? Not saying you've said that, but I'm asking. Have you ever been in a service where a lady preached and felt the anointed? Does God not anoint those who are called?

Wait, would you leave a service where a woman was called to preach? From what I gather, you wouldn't be there in the first place, correct?

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I think I know what you mean, but could you clarify the above sentence for me? When you say unction of the Holy Ghost induced prayer are you talking about something occurring spontaneously? Where someone male or female has an unction from the Lord to pray for my family and myself?

Say a Holy Ghost-filled woman is led by the Holy Ghost to lay hands on a man and pray for him during worship service or during the altar call.

Is she out of order? Has she misheard God? Is she not to lay hands on a grown man, especially if said man isn't her husband or child?

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I've never heard of anyone rejecting prayers from any sincere saint of God.
But, I may be misunderstanding the question.

Brother, you just haven't been around the right kind then. I've heard grown men say that a woman had no business laying hands on them, and they've set it in the pulpit with a microphone in their hand. Some men that are very hard against women in any form of leadership are so hard on women even having a role in the church other than being pretty and being their arm charm.

And no, I didn't hear this in my church. I used to visit churches a lot (which I don't do anymore), and I heard such stuff in those churches.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

That's an interesting sentence. Could you explain why you felt this way about them? You did leave their church on good terms?

Despite the charismatic church's history with my own, they've drifted apart, and did so years ago. They simply don't travel in the same circles anymore. The churches and evangelists the charismatic church fellowships with and endorse are the "charismatic" kind.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

They don't like preaching? Or they don't like to be preaching material?

As I say, they've gone quite a different direction. Drastically different. The traditional "Apostolic" preaching isn't what they want. They're more inclined to want the signs and wonders stuff.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

That's nice

Yes, I thought so.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

OK.

Yes.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Would that be a Freudian slip?

Typo. I wish you and yours nothing but the best. All of God's blessings.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

No, I wasn't raised an Apostolic. I've been Apostolic for 36 years.

Wow. I don't believe I knew that before now, but I may not be remembering that I've read it elsewhere. What were you raised?

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Amen in Jesus name.

Yes, it's his "thing" to say when he testifies. Sure, he says other stuff, too, but we usually expect him to begin or end with it.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Again, Amen in Jesus name.

Yes, I do pray for that entire church often. I pray they return to their first love and get things back in order. I pray we're all in order and ready to meet the Lord once He comes back.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Also thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

Not a problem at all.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Here, you are right. He is more likely to carry the title of "Pastor" among the people. There are people that don't attend our church that call him "Pastor" when they greet him. She is affectionately referred to as "Preacher Mama", a term of endearment the church has given to her.

Interesting.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Collectively, they are our "Pastor", and they each carry that title and have that respect from the congregation.

Do we have any scriptural basis for collective apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers? I understand Jesus sent His ministers out two by two. Yet, none of the 70 are alluded to be men and women collectively. While God didn't want gender fluidity in dress I can't see He allowing gender fluidity in ministry? Why would God make long hair on men an issue while allowing gender fluidity in ministry? We are told that long hair on men is shameful, 1 Corinthians 11:14. Therefore Paul is teaching the church that for a man to wear long hair it is a symbol of disgrace. I suffer not a woman to teach
This is the same apostle who pointed out to Timothy (who was taught the Apostolic faith by his mother and grandmother) that women teaching and being over men is not to be tolerated, 1 Timothy 2:12. But, like I already stated that you and your congregation believe differently, and are pleased with what is going on. They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. Also the spirit of truth shall guide you into all truth, John 14:26, John 16:13, John 15:26, 1 Corinthians 2:10-13, Romans 8:14, and 1 John 2:20-27. I hope and prayer is that we continue to follow the Holy Ghost in Jesus name.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

I do certainly appreciate the well wishes. My wife, our baby, and myself are thriving under God's blessings. He is so good to us and we are thankful for His goodness and mercy.

Again, praying that your journey in Jesus name will be a powerful adventure.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

So, let me be clear, you're saying I shouldn't use Galatians 3:28-29, right? No, I'm picking. I hear you loud and clear.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

So, I'll take that as a no then. You don't fellowship with churches that permit women to preach.

The thing is this, If I preached for them I couldn't return the favor. In the Apostolic movement just like Christendom as a whole, has all kinds of different beliefs on a plethora of different topics. Churches are built by the people who attend them. The ministerial leadership who teaches and preaches to these people can only do so if the congregation says "amen!" Therefore it's a 50 50 split. Both are agreeing on what is preached and who is preaching it. If someone doesn't like what is going on then their is a front door which they can leave through. There are women who are pastors, there are congregations who attend churches which have women pastors, prophets, and evangelists. While they do physically exist, I am convinced that Biblically God didn't set up His Body to be gender fluid. We deal with a masculine God who we are to call the Father. Jesus the Father of the Church appointed males to preach His Gospel to the known Roman world. The Apostle Paul understood the idea of leadership in the Church was only supposed to be male. Men leading men, fathers leading families. Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found. In Ecclesiastes 7:28 the preacher makes the statement that he could only find one upright man, but he couldn't even find one woman who could fill the job. This isn't speaking ill of all females. Because Solomon's Proverbs contain the wise sayings and instructions that King Lemuel's mother taught him. The Bible isn't considering women to be in the role of leadership over elders and their families.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

To address what you said, I'll give you an example. My Pastors were once close to an elder Baptist preacher and his wife. This Baptist preacher would sometimes visit our church on special occasions or pop-up at a tent revival. Out of respect for the position he held, my father-in-law would call him to the pulpit, get him to testify, and his wife might sing a song. But, to be clear, the Baptist preacher was never asked to preach to us or to take charge or control over the pulpit or service in that manner.

If I was to go to something like that, I first wouldn't expect to be recognized to even allowed to give a howdy do. They may point me out as a visitor, to allow people to know they have a visitor to their church. But, I wouldn't care to be acknowledge as the Baptist friend was recognized. The Baptist is being acknowledge out of friendship not fellowship, but that's up to that church family's leadership. Politicians are recognized by churches, even make it to the pulpit. I wouldn't even have a politician among us. Unless he or she was getting prayed through to the Holy Ghost with the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues. Then get baptized in Jesus name. But, I digress. I would be more interested in my dealings with the leadership, on a one to one. Me addressing a congregation and then they finding out what I believe about women preachers is just going to cause more issues than remedies. Yet, it is pretty complicated as I see it. Others may feel differently and let anything jump up in the pulpit. They start preaching or testifying, and the people in the pews start looking like a group of mules eating briars.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

To give a more specific example concerning the charismatic preacher's wife, you'll remember they showed up at our revival back in August 2025. The charismatic lady preacher was recognized and asked to say something on behalf of her church. However, owing to where she was in the sanctuary (it was quite crowded), she was not called to the pulpit, but testified from where she was sitting. You'll also remember that my Pastors and the charismatic lady preacher and her family have a history. They've known one another for decades.

I wouldn't expect anyone to do that for me. The leadership doesn't have to have anyone who doesn't believe as they do say anything. If we are close friends and even brothers, we shouldn't expect any compromises made on our behalf. No one would hurt my feelings if they didn't even have me even give a head nod.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

We are what would be considered small country church, and we are by no means a wealthy church in terms of finances. With that, he has to work to support himself and his family.

That said, that does leave her to doing most of the foot work when it comes to the ministerial duties.

I hope that your pastor's finanances increase as the people help support his hard efforts.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

So Deborah was in rebellion

Did I say that? Deborah is the smack in the face as well Jael, when she killed Sisera. The whole point of the story of Deborah is that Israel is in rebellion, fallen from God's leadership. Barak because he wanted to take Deborah with him he doesn't get the victory. His smack in the face was that a woman would bring victory. You understand the situation?

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

because Israel was in rebellion? And does a judge not have authority over men?

A woman was stuck doing a man's job. Due to the men failing to follow God's lead. You see the problem is that people get sold a bill of goods in Sunday school being taught about Deborah being a warrior and leading men. Which isn't scriptural truth. She was a mother in Israel, and only little boys need mothers. The writer of Hebrews wrote this; "you have been believers so long now that you ought to be teaching others. Instead, you need someone to teach you again the basic things about God’s word. You are like babies who need milk and cannot eat solid food." The criticism of the scripture is that when men are not up on their game, they need to be wet nursed. The song of Deborah speaks of Shamgar, son of Anath, who was a Canaanite king aggressor towards Israel. Shamgar caused the people to avoid the main roads, so that travelers stayed on winding pathways. Village life was horrible, life in Israel ended. Until a mother arose, a mother who needed to call a man to do a man's job. In Judges 5:9 Deborah says, that her heart was with the leadership of Israel, which would of been Israel's eldership. Judges 5:12, Deborah is awakened not to lead an army, but to get Barak to fight the Canaanite occupiers. Yet, what is supposed to be a lesson in what not to do, gets taught as an example for female leadership in churches.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Agreed. Eldership isn't always about years on a calendar, but about one's maturity in Christ. My youngest sister-in-law has been in the church her entire life (well, all of them have been) and she has a prayer life like someone that's served God for decades. She can get in the Holy Ghost like nobody I've ever seen. She is an elder, no doubt.

May she always be a great example to the women in Jesus name

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Do you believe that lady preachers are out of order and can't be anointed by God?

I believe women can have a great anointing, being used mightily by God. I believe with all my heart that we are led by the Holy Ghost to be brought into all truth. In total Spiritual maturity. Yet, people get off track, they are very sincere, but sincerely wrong in practice and approach. If they study and allow the Holy Ghost to point them in the right direction, they will allow the anointing to fully do its job. Peter was anointed, spent years personally with Christ. But, he got off track and Paul had to withstand Peter to his face Galatians 2:11–14, Proverbs 9:8-10.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Not saying you've said that, but I'm asking. Have you ever been in a service where a lady preached and felt the anointed? Does God not anoint those who are called?

That's why we have book chapter and verse. We have an entire Bible to be a lamp to our feet Psalm 119:105. yet, anointing doesn't automatically mean get in the pulpit, or go around the church pouring salad dressing on the people's heads. Like I said, there are people who are anointed, men and women. Many automatically see that anointing as a call from God. Your gift will make room for you. But Paul was clear to Timothy that he did not tolerate women to teach or be over men. Which actually means that Paul didn't want women to interfere with men's ministry. The Apostle Paul never had to think about a heating bills, or having people fill out prayer cards. That's us, we get things a little confused when we only see the church building, the platform, the pulpit, and the pews as our main place of ministry. There is a whole world out there around your little country church. The men have their specific role, and the woman have their specific role. The Bible makes it pretty plain.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Wait, would you leave a service where a woman was called to preach? From what I gather, you wouldn't be there in the first place, correct?

I've sat through a lot of horrible preaching, from men and women. Too many times to count. Listen, I've been there and done that, but like I said, there are some amazingly talented anointed females. Yet, if they understand the scriptures through their anointed Holy Ghost filled head, they will see what the Book says about female leadership over married men.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Say a Holy Ghost-filled woman is led by the Holy Ghost to lay hands on a man and pray for him during worship service or during the altar call.

That's because that's the form of worship you have in the church you attend.
You all are use to that, and feel a benefit from it. A lot of people are "led" to do and say a multiplicity of different things. While beautifully sincere, and all while they are feeling God. Yet, sometimes in our zeal we can get a little caught up. We can even make a mistake which needs to be corrected by the elders. Do you believe the man who had people drop dead in front of him when they lied to the Holy Ghost, and people were healed by his shadow was rebuked by the Apostle Paul for no reason? Did Peter not have a mighty anointing? Was he not Holy Ghost filled man? As my dear Brother E. Peterson always says, "people get a little off track, but they can also get back on track"

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Is she out of order? Has she misheard God? Is she not to lay hands on a grown man, especially if said man isn't her husband or child?

While she is in your fellowship, your church family, or the groups who are pleased to have her do so. You all vote with your feet. Yet, to others she just needs to allow her husband to take the lead.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Brother, you just haven't been around the right kind then. I've heard grown men say that a woman had no business laying hands on them, and they've set it in the pulpit with a microphone in their hand. Some men that are very hard against women in any form of leadership are so hard on women even having a role in the church other than being pretty and being their arm charm.

Brother, there are all flavors who are against what they are against. When you first asked the question about prayer, I thought you meant the kind which doesn't need a back rub from Sister Thibodeaux, and Sister Boudreaux. Back in the day I preached some anti woman preacher sermons which were pretty rough.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

And no, I didn't hear this in my church. I used to visit churches a lot (which I don't do anymore), and I heard such stuff in those churches.

Why don't you visit a lot of churches anymore? In the past you were tire kicking? But, now you are planted, you aren't looking around for a new church home. What's the reason you wouldn't visit another church of like precious faith?

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Despite the charismatic church's history with my own, they've drifted apart, and did so years ago. They simply don't travel in the same circles anymore. The churches and evangelists the charismatic church fellowships with and endorse are the "charismatic" kind.

OK

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

As I say, they've gone quite a different direction. Drastically different. The traditional "Apostolic" preaching isn't what they want. They're more inclined to want the signs and wonders stuff.

Oh, spooky and kooky? OK, understood.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Typo. I wish you and yours nothing but the best. All of God's blessings.

Thank you for your kindness.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Wow. I don't believe I knew that before now, but I may not be remembering that I've read it elsewhere. What were you raised?

A biker.

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Yes, it's his "thing" to say when he testifies. Sure, he says other stuff, too, but we usually expect him to begin or end with it.



Yes, I do pray for that entire church often. I pray they return to their first love and get things back in order. I pray we're all in order and ready to meet the Lord once He comes back.



Not a problem at all.

[Bro Flame]

Bro Benincasa, I apologize for the delayed response. We were off yesterday for MLK Jr. Day, and Sunday morning we got some snow here in South Georgia. I have to figure out how to reply without copy and pasting everything (and I haven't been back over to the help discussion I started here on AFF), so I'll just reply this way.

I've enjoyed our conversation, but neither of us are going to change our minds. You are firm that women are not to preach, while I am firm that they can. While two entirely different positions, I do believe we have both handled this discussion maturely, and for that, I do thank you.

I cannot imagine where I would be if it weren't for the Holy Ghost-filled women in my life. I want to share some stories with you before I sign off of AFF again for a little while.

My home church, the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ, located in a little community in South Georgia, was kept open by a Holy Ghost-filled woman. The church went through a trying time -- the membership dwindled due to backsliding, people dying or moving away, and then the pastor (a man, I must add for clarification) passed away. This elderly woman, the Mother of the Church, was left as the sole member. A pastor (again, another man) from another Apostolic church some thirty minutes away heard about all of this and came to the church and put a pad lock on the front door. He told this mother, "You need a man to lead you and you need to leave this church and come to mine." But she wasn't going to let the church she had labored in, saw her husband and children get saved in just close-up and cease to exist.

And I'm glad she didn't give up.

She had her backslidden son come cut the padlock off the front door, she put the lights in her name, and she kept the church clean and open. She went every Sunday, every Wednesday, right by herself. She sang songs to Lord, she read some scriptures, she prayed for the lost and for God to replenish the church she loved with souls full of the Holy Ghost and on fire for the Lord.

Today, I must say that little church is thriving. We have four new babies coming into the church this very year. We have elders, mid-age people, and lots of youth in the church. We're a church full of preachers and teachers. The Holy Ghost flows in our services -- we see healings, deliverance, salvation, restoration.

And it's all because of the faith of a little Holy Ghost-filled woman well on in her life.

I also want to brag on my wife and mother-in-law.

As you may have gathered from what I've shared or by reading in between the lines, I've had a rough life full of ups and downs. Which, to be fair, we all have our sad stories.

My mother-in-law is, without a doubt, the most humble person I've ever had the privilege to meet. She has given herself to God's work and she isn't above being used by Him in anyway He sees fit. I have seen her roll on the ground at tent revivals with people praying through to the Holy Ghost. I've seen her weep before God on the behalf of someone's soul. Specifically, I've seen her plead with God to change His mind and give my mother one more chance to be saved. She begged God, "Please God! This is Dalton's momma! Please God, one more time!" She's gotten up the altar, drenched in sweat, tired, and in pain from spending hours praying devils out of people possessed. She gives so effortlessly of herself. She has been a big inspiration to me, and she has helped me through some of the toughest times of my life -- when my grandparents died, when my dad has his strokes, when my momma attempted suicide, when my wife and I miscarried our babies. She has been a comfort, a guiding force in my walk with God. She has spoken things into my life, given me a sense of direction and assurance that I've so desperately needed on multiple occasions. I cannot tell you the times I've seen people do her dirty when she has done nothing -- and I mean NOTHING -- but good to them. She has swallowed hurt and still cried out to God on their behalf.

She is a living example of humility and Christianity.

My wife is another strong, driving force in my life. When we got together and especially when we got married, I was a wreck. I was full of depression after years of heartache and being dealt many of lives curve balls. My wife has prayed for me, been a shoulder for me, given me advice, and showed me what love really is supposed to be. She helped me overcome depression and reroute my life and seek after what God has for me to do. She has been my voice of reason, my confidant, my soulmate. She is everything God wants her to be, and she is everything I've ever wanted and could ever possibly need. She is a gifted musician (she can plan anything), she can sing, she writes her own songs, she preaches the house down, she loves our baby and dotes on her. She is a prime example of motherhood and wife-hood (if that's a word). She is anointed and full of the Holy Ghost. I am proud to say I have a Spirit-empowered wife who thrives in the gifts of the Spirit and allows the Spirit to use her as He sees fit to do so.

My mind also goes towards the women who have given their lives to the mission field. Sis Susan Templet has completely devoted herself to the work of God in Ecuador. She has given up the comfort of living in the States, has never married, has no children, but she is sold out to the Apostolic faith and has testimonies upon testimonies about how God has used her to preach, teach, and pull people out of the gutter and into God's church. Sis Janice Alvear (who sometimes posts here) has given herself to the work of God in Brazil, and has been there for decades. God called her when she was a young girl. Like Sis Templet, she has multiple testimonies of how God has used her to save the street children and lead people into God's grace and receive His salvation.

I cannot and will not stand against these women and how God has chosen to use them. It is by the power and guidance of the Holy Ghost that these women have accomplished what they have for the Kingdom of God. I applaud their obedience, humility, sacrifice, and determination to live and thrive for Jesus.

Again, Bro Benincasa, I want to thank you for your time, your questions, and your respect during our discussion.

God bless you and yours.